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> Volkswagen prins cu fofarlica mare de EPA

aphophis
post 18 Sep 2015, 21:51
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Din cate am inteles EPA a ordonat un recall masiv la vw si audi-urile pe motorina vandute in state, care au un cod ascuns in software-ul masinii, care detecteaza cand masina e testata pentru emisii si atunci ruleaza un cod ce nu ruleaza in mod obisnuit , menit sa pacaleasca testerele, facand masina sa scoata mai putine noxe decat scoate in mod obisnuit. E scandal mare la americani, zice-se ca vw risca o amenda de 35.000 de dolari pe masina masluita, adica o amenda de ~18 miliarde de dolari.

QUOTE
The Obama administration on Friday directed Volkswagen to recall nearly a half million cars from the road, saying the German automaker used software intentionally designed to circumvent environmental standards for reducing smog.

The Environmental Protection Agency issued the company a notice of violation and accused the company of breaking the law by installing software known as a “defeat device” in 4-cylinder Volkswagen and Audi vehicles from model years 2009-15. The device is programmed to detect when the car is undergoing official emissions testing, and to only turn on full emissions control systems during that testing. Those controls are turned off during normal driving situations, when the vehicles pollute far more heavily than reported by the manufacturer, the E.P.A. said.


“Using a defeat device in cars to evade clean air standards is illegal and a threat to public health,” said Cynthia Giles, the E.P.A.’s assistant administrator for the Office of Enforcement and Compliance. “Working closely with the California Air Resources Board, E.P.A. is committed to making sure that all automakers play by the same rules. E.P.A. will continue to investigate these very serious violations.”

The software was designed to conceal the cars’ emissions of the pollutant nitrogen oxide, which contributes to the creation of ozone and smog. The pollutants are linked to a range of health problems, including asthma attacks and other respiratory diseases.

The state of California has issued a separate notice of violation to the company. California, the E.P.A. and the Justice Department are working together on an investigation of the allegations.

The allegations cover roughly 482,000 diesel passenger cars sold in the United States since 2009.

Affected diesel models include the 2009-15 Volkswagen Jetta, 2009–15 Beetle, 2009–15 Golf, 2014-15 Passat and 2009-15 Audi A3.


The notice of violation is part of a broader, more aggressive enforcement effort by federal environmental regulators on the auto industry. Analysts said it was meant to send a clear message to automakers that they will be harshly treated for compromising federal rules.

It follows a November 2014 announcement of the administration’s largest-ever penalty for a violation of the Clean Air Act, in which the government fined the Korean automakers Hyundai Motor and Kia Motors a combined $300 million as part of a settlement for overstating vehicle fuel-economy standards on 1.2 million cars.

“They want to make it clear that they’re going to crack down on cheaters,” said Frank O’Donnell, president of the environmental advocacy group Clean Air Watch. “They’re cheating not only car buyers but the breathing public. They want to lay down the law, enforce the law, and show they’re not going to tolerate cheaters. The laws and regulation are only as good as the enforcement.”


http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/19/business...v=top-news&_r=0

This post has been edited by aphophis: 18 Sep 2015, 21:59


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psychoo
post 18 Sep 2015, 22:33
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Foarte tare! Eu sunt totusi mai curios cum ai implementa o astfel de procedura.
De unde stie masina aia cand e testata?
Nu insinuez ca ar fi o acuza nefondata, sunt doar inginer si curios. Interesant engine management.


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akileon
post 18 Sep 2015, 23:03
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cancan sau times new roman ? radmasa.gif


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aphophis
post 18 Sep 2015, 23:08
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pt ca site-ul epa sigur e totuna cu tnr..

http://yosemite.epa.gov/opa/admpress.nsf/2...33;OpenDocument


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IRONICK
post 18 Sep 2015, 23:17
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USA. Au terminat de luat bani de la Toyota, si acum au trecut la VW. La inceput este santajul. Si daca nu le reuseste, trec la acuze inventate.


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aphophis
post 18 Sep 2015, 23:24
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QUOTE(IRONICK @ 18 Sep 2015, 23:17)
USA. Au terminat de luat bani de la Toyota, si acum au trecut la VW. La inceput este santajul. Si daca nu le reuseste, trec la acuze inventate.
*


radmasa.gif saracele firme cum is urmarite nevinovate de bubuli . De aia o platit toyota 1.2 miliarde de dolari ca sa nu fie continuata acuzarea firmei dpdv penal?
Si cu vw ce au mai avut? Ii deranja pe americani o firma ce era in cadere libera dpdv al vanzarilor? radmasa.gif

18 Sep 2015, 23:29:
si al naibii bubuli, cred ca i-au manipulat extrasenzorial cu flacara violet pe aia de la fauve de au ajuns aia sa recunoasca ca au facut magaria:

QUOTE
When confronted with the EPA and Carb’s evidence, VW admitted that its cars were fitted with the “defeat device”.


http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/s...-air-violations

This post has been edited by aphophis: 18 Sep 2015, 23:29


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psychoo
post 19 Sep 2015, 08:10
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Oare Volvo cand o sa fie prins cu fofarlica? Ca doar a fost luat de chinezi...


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cristic1982
post 19 Sep 2015, 08:46
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E foarte posibil sa faca asta, si in europa fac ceva similar: daca sunt detectate conditiile de incercare (prima pornire a masinii, temp. aer si temp. lichid de racire la un anumit nivel) sunt folosite niste reglaje pentru o anumita perioada de timp (adica cat dureaza testul de emisii), iar cand perioada asta de timp e depasita folosesc alte reglaje mai favorabile pt. consum si acceleratie.
Ceilalti folosesc un singur tip de reglaje in zona care e testata masina si altele in rest.
Nu sunt singurii care fac asta.
Dpdv client (nu fac referire la poluanti) e mai placut ceea ce face VW (masina raspunde mai repede, consuma mai putin...), dar nu e legal.
In fine, cred ca au fost turnati wink.gif si pe urma au fost facute verificarile. Asa e cand concurenta lucreaza cu aceiasi furnizori.

In afara de GM/Ford, toti o sa aiba nevoie de niste recall-uri mari. Asta ca sa le atraga atentia cine cum conduce (acolo spaga se numeste lobby).

This post has been edited by cristic1982: 19 Sep 2015, 08:47


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bion
post 19 Sep 2015, 09:35
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Curat cadere libera la vanzari cand numai la low end Volkswagen Jetta, 2009–15 Beetle, 2009–15 Golf and 2009-15 Audi A3 cu exceptia Passat au vandut 500.000 de conserve.Sau hamericanii au saracit sub banana.


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axabrt
post 19 Sep 2015, 11:37
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offtopic
M-am uitat de curand cat e un golf 7 tedei ... echipare highline + DSG este cam 32.000 de euro. In state unu la fel se invarte pe la 28.000 USD. deci tot pe acolo. Mi se pare mie sau e cam mult sa dai atata pe un golf ?

Se pare ca 100.000 de euro nu mai reprezinta nimic in ziua de azi...aaaa 3 golfuri noi. deci nimic ! Aveti grija ... urmeaza dezastrul . Eu zic ca vanzarile or sa o ia urgent in jos. Sau poate ca VW nu-i facut pentru romani, ori nu mai e masina poporului. Ceva se intampla

Sa va povestesc de Passat Sportline la NUMAI 47000 ??? Atata e un apartament cu 2 camere sau o casa la tara.

This post has been edited by axabrt: 19 Sep 2015, 12:30


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akileon
post 19 Sep 2015, 15:15
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32.000 euro-28.000 dolari-tot pe acolo? eu cred ca diferenta se duce la 7000 de euro, destul de considerabil, sa ma zicem ca la americani e 2 dolari galonul de combustibil? adica vreo 2 lei litrul?

cred ca multi producatori inseala la testele de gaze, chiar si in Europa, dar aici nu ii controleaza nimeni ca na, cine are curaj sa ridice tonul la Germania? foarte bine ca americanii ii ard pe acest aspect, eu as arde multi producatori si pe seama consumurilor declarate care in realitate sunt imposibil de atins


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IRONICK
post 19 Sep 2015, 15:34
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Americanii nu au stiut sa joace cinstit niciodata. Nu stiu ce este aia concurenta. Urmariti istoria topului producatorilor auto si reactiile lor. S-au luat de toti care le amenintau locul si vanzarile.


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paul_p
post 19 Sep 2015, 15:49
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Pai si ce vina au americanii ca VW a manarit ECU ca sa fenteze normele de poluare?
Daca erau corecti nu se putea lua nimeni de ei. Acum cand i-au prins cu fofarlica inseamna ca americanii nu stiu sa joace cinstit?! wacko.gif

This post has been edited by paul_p: 19 Sep 2015, 15:49


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Bacu
post 19 Sep 2015, 16:53
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QUOTE(axabrt @ 19 Sep 2015, 11:37)
offtopic
M-am uitat de curand cat e un golf 7 tedei ... echipare highline + DSG este cam 32.000 de euro. In state unu la fel se invarte pe la 28.000 USD. deci tot pe acolo. Mi se pare mie sau e cam mult sa dai atata pe un golf ?

Se pare ca 100.000 de euro nu mai reprezinta nimic in ziua de azi...aaaa 3 golfuri noi. deci nimic ! Aveti grija ... urmeaza dezastrul . Eu zic ca vanzarile or sa o ia urgent in jos. Sau poate ca VW nu-i facut pentru romani, ori nu mai e masina poporului. Ceva se intampla

Sa va povestesc de Passat Sportline la NUMAI  47000 ??? Atata e un apartament cu 2 camere sau o casa la tara.
*



Ma indoiesc ca highline e 32000 euro, daca un edition 40 dsg echipat mai mult decat generos (bixenon, piele, keyless) e sub 30000...


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Ampt
post 19 Sep 2015, 17:10
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Bine că nu vinde Renault în America... smile.gif


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aphophis
post 19 Sep 2015, 19:27
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QUOTE(IRONICK @ 19 Sep 2015, 15:34)
Americanii nu au stiut sa joace cinstit niciodata. Nu stiu ce este aia concurenta. Urmariti istoria topului producatorilor auto si reactiile lor. S-au luat de toti care le amenintau locul si vanzarile.
*


radmasa.gif serios? Pai saracul vw, masina care ar fi pus toyota in genunchi (ca poate miscarea e pusa la cale de toyota) radmasa.gif , e un pitic fata de restul plutonului. 32,332 unitati vandute in august 2015 si 238,074 unitati vandute pana in august inclusi (2015). Stii cat a vandut ford doar in august 2015? 225,244 unitati. Adica aia vand intr-o luna cat vinde fauve-ul in 8 luni. icon_mrgreen.gif
Si in plus fauve-ul are vanzarile in scadere de vreo cativa ani incoace (parca ultimii cinci).

Dar noh.. saracii fauve is vanati ca saracii de la hyundai care si ei au platit intelegeri foarte generoase ca sa nu fi continuate cercetarile in manariile facute de ei..



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simon
post 19 Sep 2015, 21:32
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Mai frate, daca si neamtul, la care se inchina tot europeanul, fura clientul... Ce sa mai zici!
D'aia iubim noi frantozishe, e modest si cinstit. smile.gif

This post has been edited by simon: 19 Sep 2015, 21:50


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centurion
post 20 Sep 2015, 16:13
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Renault este de vina, clar.
Nu SUA ca i-au prins in off-side, nu VW ca au trisat, nu Toyota etc.

S-au vorba cantecului, 'Americanii-s de vina...' (Vama Veche).


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mircea_aq
post 21 Sep 2015, 09:44
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Trebuia sa se sparga si "bula" emisiilor infime de CO2.
Evident ca nu s-a intamplat in Europa, desi de-aici a plecat.
Daca acum 10 ani consumurile reale erau cu 20-30% mai mari decat ce declara producatorul acum s-a ajuns ca diferenta intre consumul declarat si cel real sa fie de 2x.
Hai sa vedem cum trateaza UE problema, UE care s-a angajat ca pana in 2020 sa curga roua din tevile tdi-ste. Cine isi va asuma momentul de trezire la realitate ?
Reducerile alea drastice ale nivelului de particule emise, pe care le clameaza printre altii si reno sunt de fapt in majoritate obtinute prin manipularea testului de noxe.

http://0-100.hotnews.ro/2015/09/21/volkswa...i-a-publicului/


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IRONICK
post 21 Sep 2015, 10:00
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In primul rand nu este dovedita treaba, sunt doar acuzatii americane.

Problema este alta, testul este gresit. Nu este nici o manipulare, ci pur si simplu la fel ca si testul de consum, favorizeaza valori mai mici si toti producatorii speculeaza asta.
Atat timp cat clientul este bucuros de briz-brizuri si laude (vezi topicurile cu Espace, Kadjar sau Megane 4), nu o sa prindem niciodata o 'trezire'.

This post has been edited by IRONICK: 21 Sep 2015, 10:02


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marian_ariciuc
post 21 Sep 2015, 10:00
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QUOTE(mircea_aq @ 21 Sep 2015, 09:44)
... si reno sunt de fapt in majoritate obtinute prin manipularea testului de noxe.

pune derelecu, clipu toate testerele apeleaza la ea ca s-o bage in modul de functionate ITP, masina incepe si produce combustibil, absoarbe aer pe teava de esapament si pacaleste testerele...
sau:
fiecare statie de testare e pe harta si cand GPS-ul localizeaza masina pe harta, in statia de verificare, pac! schimba mapa de injectie, poc! pune restrictie la toate noxele care se indreapta "to the germany!"
ce chestie, VW, musulmani to germany, america se cam uita urat to the germany, ce-au ma frate coincidentele astea...?


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mircea_aq
post 21 Sep 2015, 10:16
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Bun, sa lasam deocamdata situatia particulara a VW de-o parte.
Testele nu sunt gresite, sunt doar depasite, si asa cum spui toti producatorii speculeaza fereastra de oportunitate, in timp ce UE inchide ochii. De ce ?

Testul de masurare al consumului - NEDC a fost actualizat ultima oara in mileniul trecut. UE se face ca lucreaza la unul nou care intarzie sa apara.

Angajamentul domnilor de la Bruxelles e sa avem sub 130g CO2/km pana in 2015, respectiv sub 95g CO2/km pana in 2021. Vorbim de media emisiilor modelelor noi din portofoliul oricarui producator.

Prin urmare se ridica doua probleme:

1. Cat de corect e sa schimbi regulile jocului in timpul lui ?
2. Cine pe cine pacaleste ? UE pe cetateni - ca lupta cu poluarea ca Ionut Dolanescu ? Producatorii de masini - pe cine ? pai tot pe cetateni dar cu complicitatea UE.




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aphophis
post 21 Sep 2015, 10:22
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QUOTE(IRONICK @ 21 Sep 2015, 10:00)
In primul rand nu este dovedita treaba, sunt doar acuzatii americane.

Problema este alta, testul este gresit. Nu este nici o manipulare, ci pur si simplu la fel ca si testul de consum, favorizeaza valori mai mici si toti producatorii speculeaza asta.
Atat timp cat clientul este bucuros de briz-brizuri si laude (vezi topicurile cu Espace, Kadjar sau Megane 4), nu o sa prindem niciodata o 'trezire'.
*


radmasa.gif sigur nu is reale acuzatiile , americanii mor de frica vanzarilor super uluitoare ale fauveului in america radmasa.gif De aia, i-au si faultat, le-au iscenat americanii treburi nemtilor, fara sa fie vinovati.

Ca dedicatie pentru tine icon_mrgreen.gif

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cq-YWo0HKuc


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IRONICK
post 21 Sep 2015, 10:32
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QUOTE(mircea_aq @ 21 Sep 2015, 09:16)
Testele nu sunt gresite, sunt doar depasite, si asa cum spui toti producatorii speculeaza fereastra de oportunitate, in timp ce UE inchide ochii. De ce ?
*
De ce nu? Singurii care pierd sunt cetatenii.
De ce masinile tunate trec testele de noxe? Pentru ca testul este intr-o plaja in care nu conteaza.
Americanii se fac si ei ca reinventeaza roata, nu este nimic gresit in test. Pur si simplu toti producatorii sunt favorizati.

This post has been edited by IRONICK: 21 Sep 2015, 10:57


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aphophis
post 21 Sep 2015, 10:34
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QUOTE(IRONICK @ 21 Sep 2015, 10:32)
De ce nu? Singurii care pierd sunt cetatenii.
De ce masinile tunate trec testele de noxe? Pentru ca testul este intr-o plaja in care nu conteaza.
*


pai si atunci de ce au umblat nemtii cu fofarlica daca testele alea erau intr-o plaja care nu conteaza? icon_mrgreen.gif


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St
post 21 Sep 2015, 11:08
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QUOTE(IRONICK @ 21 Sep 2015, 10:00)
In primul rand nu este dovedita treaba, sunt doar acuzatii americane.
*



Nu e dovedida, dar CEO VW a admis ca au facut asta, mai e nevoie de vreo dovata?

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/201...emissions-cheat

QUOTE
The German carmaker admitted to fitting its U.S. diesel vehicles with software that turns on full pollution controls only when the car is undergoing official emissions testing, the Environmental Protection Agency said Friday.






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IRONICK
post 21 Sep 2015, 11:47
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QUOTE(St @ 21 Sep 2015, 10:08)
Nu e dovedida, dar CEO VW a admis ca au facut asta, mai e nevoie de vreo dovata?

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/201...emissions-cheat
*


QUOTE
Volkswagen Chief Executive Officer Martin Winterkorn said on Sunday that the company is cooperating with the probe and ordered its own external investigation into the issue. The CEO said he was “deeply sorry” for breaking the public’s trust and that VW would do “everything necessary in order to reverse the damage this has caused.”

Asta nu inseamna ca a admis asta.

This post has been edited by IRONICK: 21 Sep 2015, 11:49


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centurion
post 21 Sep 2015, 12:02
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Vezi ca tot pe acolo scrie ca:

The German carmaker admitted to fitting its U.S. diesel vehicles with software that turns on full pollution controls only when the car is undergoing official emissions testing, the Environmental Protection Agency said Friday.




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AndreiMR
post 21 Sep 2015, 14:05
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Eu am asa o banuiala ca la absolut toti constructorii se practica metodele pentru care vor sa ii arda pe VW, numai ca deocamdata n-au fost prinsi. Eu zic ca mai interesant e momentul in care vine "descoperirea" asta a americanilor. La nivel mondial, VW e foarte aproape de a deveni nr.1. Stiu ca in America sunt de-a dreptul insignifianti ca vanzari...dar pare ca americanii ar dori cu orice mijloace sa mentina GM in varful clasamentelor mondiale de vanzari smile.gif


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mircea_aq
post 21 Sep 2015, 14:36
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Et voila:
http://www.promotor.ro/masini-noi/opinii/e...oastre-14730864

QUOTE
În plin scandal legat de înșelăciunea pe care ar fi făcut-o cei de la Volkswagen în privința emisiilor de noxe în SUA, ar fi bine să ne reamintim că întreaga industrie auto se face vinovată de marketing înșelător, cu complicitatea autorităților.


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