Outline · [ Standard ] · Linear+ Autobild: Logan much unsafer than Golf IV

German Autobild made a crashtest with the Logan und compared the results with a 5-year old Golf IV(with same price). The conclusion is that the Logan has conderably worse results. Especially the seatbelts are criticized for being not modern enough, but also for example the footpedals and the doorlock show clear shortcommings. Link for who can read german: http://www.autobild.de/test/neuwagen/artik...artikel_seite=1 Autobild also compared the cars for other things, again Golf the clear winner. http://www.autobild.de/test/neuwagen/artik...ff212599871a0b6 Especially Logan's brakes are criticized for lacking power and the car is very noisy at higher speeds. Some personal comments: - Renault never promised more than 3 Eurocap-stars, still unclear to me is whether and how much the Logan underscores this. - In general Autobild is VW's patriotic big friend. Some comments are really just for laughing (or crying), for example about room for legs in Golf's back, yeah right it's comfortable there...... - Autobild tested a Romanian Logan, the West-European version has modifications anyway - Nevertheless Renault should be prepared to learn from enemies, it seems that Renault saved a bit too much on some items (brakes, belts),if really so, don't hesitate to correct! This post has been edited by ollie: 19 Apr 2005, 08:44

German Autobild made a crashtest with the Logan und compared the results with a 5-year old Golf IV(with same price). The conclusion is that the Logan has conderably worse results.
Especially the seatbelts are criticized for being not modern enough, but also for example the footpedals and the doorlock show clear shortcommings.
Link for who can read german:
http://www.autobild.de/test/neuwagen/artik...artikel_seite=1

Autobild also compared the cars for other things, again Golf the clear winner.
http://www.autobild.de/test/neuwagen/artik...ff212599871a0b6
Especially Logan's brakes are criticized for lacking power and the car is very noisy at higher speeds.

Some personal comments:
- Renault never promised more than 3 Eurocap-stars, still unclear to me is whether and how much the Logan underscores this.
- In general Autobild is VW's patriotic big friend. Some comments are really just for laughing (or crying), for example about room for legs in Golf's back, yeah right it's comfortable there......
- Autobild tested a Romanian Logan, the West-European version has modifications anyway
- Nevertheless Renault should be prepared to learn from enemies, it seems that Renault saved a bit too much on some items (brakes, belts),if really so, don't hesitate to correct!

This post has been edited by ollie: 19 Apr 2005, 08:44

ollie, this has been discussed in the romanian part of the forum, too. I didn't see it but some people who saw the test said that it was done with the clear intention to show that Logan is a bad car. For instance Golf had ABS, Logan did not. The crash test was not nearly as bad as they claimed (Golf IV has 4 stars).

- Autobild tested a Romanian Logan, the West-European version has modifications anyway

What is the difference between a Romanian Logan and 'West-European' version?

What am I driving? A 'Romanian version', a 'West-European version' or some 'Balkan version'?

A "good"-old romanian version!
It is a rummor that the WE-version will have better tires, better brakes-pads, lower body...bleaah...dreams..

Hi all,

it is common practice of the car makers to change things according to the country the car is originally delivered to.

The stuff does not need to cost (much) more but it may make a difference. For Logan, I believe they plan to change settings of the suspension (meant is: springs and shock absorbers, which can make a huge difference in road holding & braking but will render a car less comfortable), maybe other brake pads and tyre brand. ABS will be standard at all equipment levels since there is an agreement that all new cars (beginning somewhere in July 2005) come with it.

I think that nobody should panic only because of the AutoBild test. There is a drive test/evaluation by ADAC which sais something like "not an astonishing car but good value for the money" - which is what we all new, isn't it. However, ADAC did not crash the car; I guess we'll just have to wait for something like NCAP or ADAC and not rely solely on AutoBild.

Regards,
os


This post has been edited by os: 20 Apr 2005, 09:35

Just dreams Asarban? No, Renault itself wrote although it didn't give the details yet. And it's very normal because the road conditions and customer expectations are quite different from those in Romania.
I agree with Os, small changes on paper like changing the miserable Montana-tyres and the suspension can make a considerable difference in practice.

Also sprach Zarathustra.

Ein Buch für Alle ünd Keinen…

Just dreams Asarban? No, Renault itself wrote although it didn't give the details yet. And it's very normal because the road conditions and customer expectations are quite different from those in Romania.
I agree with Os, small changes on paper like changing the miserable Montana-tyres and the suspension can make a considerable difference in practice.

They compared two cars worth EUR 8,800. The only problem is that Logan is a brand new car at that money, while Golf benefit from the technology and quality of a car nearly 70% more expensive.
That is the difference. It is a fact that in those tests the second hand Golf will behave like a new one (especially considering that probably they used a new one or one in perfect shape).
Then the commonn sense tells us that it is no possibility of reasonable comparison between the two.
How would the germans feel is the new Passat is compared with a SH Toyota Supra!

Anyhow, the great side of the test is the fact that Logan was faster than the Golf.
That should be an issue for VW. How is that possible?

Logan weighs substantially less than the Golf.

Please don't tell me that Gentelman from AUTO BILD are getting monthly or wekly pay's from Romanian or French or even Italian car mannifacturers. Do not be naive, just look at the latest tests No.1 golf, No.2 focus, No.3 astra, No.4 megane and so on. Do anyone think's that they will kill its own employer?

P.S. Dont worry too much untill you dont get oppinion from at least 3 or 4 different magazines from arround europe and NCAP wich I consider fully independent.

Why did they test Logan? Because is a bad car ? No ! I presume they would ignore a bad one. They're afraid of it ! I think you would agree with me that if Dacia increases it's sales , appears the certain posibility to LOWER costs. What would be the next step ? Improvement of QUALITY ! And that would be a real pain in the ass for Golf... Am i right?

The problem is: is for the first time that a new car is tested with a SH car...
What about testing new Golf with a SH Mercedes? There is gonna be a fair test?

They should test the same price new cars. Like a VW lupo with a Logan...

Why did they test Logan? Because is a bad car ? No ! I presume they would ignore a bad one. They're afraid of it ! 

I think this is the right answer.

But it does not seem that Logan has very good breaks. At least not according to http://www.daciaclub.ro/index.php?showtopic=12413.

Logan "West European Version" official presentation:
http://www.renault.com/datamedia/doc/media..._complet_GB.pdf

_____
Do you think that the crash tests made by VW revealed all differences between VW and Logan? I think that they showed only the bad results for Logan and the good one for VW Golf. I am not trusting in this kind of tests. For a obiective tests it should be performed by neutral company (not a producer one). Renault should perform a crash test also between Logan and VW and I am sure that they will reach different results.

Do you think that the crash tests made by VW revealed all differences between VW and Logan? I think that they showed only the bad results for Logan and the good one for VW Golf. I am not trusting in this kind of tests.

I was not too happy with the breaking distance that ADAC got in its test with Logan. The link is the conversation I posted too in my last message

The question of truthfulness follows

Whom would you confide trust, safety, hope, belief, pride, love …?

Gorgeous, irresistible French-Romanian virginity

or

used, abused German filthiness ?

PS. Sorry

PARIS (AFP) - The French automaker Renault is next month to begin sales of its low-cost Logan sedan, initially reserved for emerging market countries, in France and elsewhere in western Europe, the company said.

ADVERTISEMENT

The Logan, with a base price of 7,500 euros (9,600 dollars), will go on sale in France on June 9, in Spain on June 16 and in Germany on June 17.

It will become available in Belgium, Switzerland, The Netherlands, Italy and Austria between October 2005 and January 2006.

"Its price will vary by country mainly according to taxes and transportation costs," Renault said.

The vehicle has been marketed in eastern and central Europe since the autumn of 2004.

Renault said the Logan would be on sale in 30 countries this year, notably in Africa, the Middle East and Latin America.

Currently manufactured in Romania and Russia, the car will soon be produced as well in Morocco, Columbia and Iran and in India in 2007.

Renault hopes to sell more than a million Logans a year starting in 2010, a quarter of overall annual sales targeted for that date.

The question of truthfulness follows 

Whom would you confide  trust, safety, hope, belief, pride, love …?
     
      Gorgeous, irresistible  French-Romanian virginity
                                 
                                or

      used, abused  German  filthiness ?

PS. Sorry 

c'mon, mccoy, do not kill us !

you're a poet ! " romanian virginity vs german filthiness " ! I'm still laughing !

the test was made to fill up a page or two ! the results are not to be considered !
and, after all, who allready bought the car should drive more carefully, isnt it !?

Nowadays , I would say Germanic,

it is deeper...

PS. sorry but it`s Friday,13th

This post has been edited by mccoy: 13 May 2005, 15:15

Well, now that the EuroNCAP test was done, I gathered the Autobild/DEKRA scores and compared with the EuroNCAP ones (file attached).
The "?.??" score means the exact score is unknown (yet) to me but it is guarantee to be somewhere in the range mentioned next to it.

What I've noted:

1. Autobild/DEKRA is doing a sistematic error, assigning a full 4 points rating to everybody for the "Upper Legs" category. They must be using second hand VW's test dummies with no tension recorders for upper legs, probably
As a side effect of that, the Autobild/DEKRA frontal impact score for Golf IV is even higher than the EuroNCAP one for Golf V and far higher than the EuroNCAP score for Golf IV...

2. The Head score for Logan is a serious Autobild/DEKRA scr*w-up.
Instead 4.00 they got 0.00
Please note the 0.00 (red color) is the absolut minimum and the 4.00 (green color) is the absolut maximum for each of the 4 frontal impact categories: head, chest, upper legs, lower legs.

Now regarding a previous discussion with a colleague: I don't agree we should just accept the DEKRA test as an alternative test.

DEKRA has clearly stated they are testing by EuroNCAP criterias (see below).
And if they are doing that, they should get very similar results.
Otherwise they are either biased either incompetents (I would vote for the former).

Quoted from DEKRA's press release:
"Beim Crashtest nach den Kriterien des EuroNCAP (European New Car Assessment Programme) blieb die Fahrgastzelle des Logan zwar intakt, es zeigten sich jedoch überdurchschnittlich hohe Kopfbelastungen."
http://www.dekra.de/dekra/presse/magazin/s...e=de&_article=2


Attached File(s)
 DEKRA_Autobild_vs_EuroNCAP.txt ( 2.03k ) Number of downloads: 69

I guess that says it all. I also said that the tests were a set-up. Logan did fair in EuroNCAP tests with minimal safety options only. Add newer safety belts with reminders, add side airbags, add reinforced doors and reinforced body frame and retest: I think it should get 4 stars.
my 2 cents...

@Illusion, I think the only thing you forgot to 'add' is a re-designed platform, you added everything else

It doesn't need reinforced bodywork for 4 stars - it needs seatbelt reminders, pretensioned seatbelts, and better designed pads that don't break your legs. And maybe a side airbag. But all those would cost money