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> Logan computer error DF044?, anybody knows what is a cause?

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zorpetus
post 8 May 2006, 11:00
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Can someone help by giving some advice waht could be the cause of error DF044 given by Logan computer. Diagnostic was done by official Dacia Service, and it was done because car failed to start out of first try from time to time (there are topics related to this problem in this forum) - and Dacia service denies to fix the problem because of an alarm system (Cobra) being installed by "third party service" (not by Dacia service itself who asks almost double the price than normal).

Anyway, car appears to be starting now just fine (as wires and contacts and connectors has been checked and re-seated both in Dacia service and service where alarm has been installed several times - maybe problem with ignition was caused with some poor contacts - but now that problem is gone), but Logan computer still reads error DF044.

Person in service says that is unable to access module of the computer for blocking the ignition. (please see attached "screen dumps" taken with digital camera smile.gif ) and that problem might be related with some wire cut or not firmly connected or... and advices to check the service who installed alarm to check it again... And in service where they installed alarm they say that everything is fine, firmly connected, and that problem might be with Logan computer, as "Renault electronics is known to be very unreliable" ;(

I would like to ask you, most kindly, if someone has some practical experience with Logan electronics/computer to give me some dirrection what could be the cause of this?

Strujni krug blokade paljenja - means - electric circuit of ignition blocking

Kvar linije blokade paljenja - means - malfunction of line for igniition blocking

and on the third screen dumpt it says:

Computer not recognized: please check how old is your diagnostic device or that you have choosen the right car type. Press continue to show computer indetification (and Logan has been choosen as you can see on top left of the screen).


Any tip/advice/direction... either here or on zorpetus@gmail.com is more than welcome! smile.gif


P.S. I am unable to attach any file to this post, altough images are plain JPG, quite small (100K or below).


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DragosP
post 8 May 2006, 11:19
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QUOTE(zorpetus @ 8 May 2006, 12:00)
check the service who installed alarm to check it again... And in service where they installed alarm they say that everything is fine, firmly connected, and that problem might be with Logan computer, as "Renault electronics is known to be very unreliable" ;(


Bullshit!
You should remove the car alarm. Remember that Logan isn't Laguna.


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Stefan_B
post 8 May 2006, 12:11
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QUOTE(zorpetus @ 8 May 2006, 14:00)
error DF044.

Person in service says that is unable to access module of the computer for blocking the ignition. [...] and that problem might be related with some wire cut

Strujni krug blokade paljenja [/b]- means - electric circuit of ignition blocking
Kvar linije blokade paljenja[/b] - means - malfunction of line for igniition blocking
and on the third screen dumpt it says:
Computer not recognized: please check how old is your diagnostic device or that you have choosen the right car type. Press continue to show computer indetification (and Logan has been choosen as you can see on top left of the screen).


Ok, without pictures, it's harder, but it looks like the issue is the following: the car has an immo system that requires 2 steps:
1. you insert the key in the ignition, where it is processed by the UCH unit. Upon a correct authentication, the UCH does 2 things: blanks the red immo led in the dash and proceeds to step2 below
2. the UCH sends to the engine computer (ECU) an authorization code, which unlocks the ECU and allows the engine to be started.

Based on your info, it looks like the UCH unit cannot be connected to by the dealer - the key here is "Press continue to show computer indetification" - if the ID is all 0's, then it's most likely bad wiring. If it's a long string of HEX numbers, it's a diagnosis software issue, probably. It can happen that the wiring for the alarm affected the UCH circuit - does the immo led blink when the alarm is armed? So, I guess you need to figure out how the dealer found about your custom alarm? I'd say, go to another dealer - maybe they will be more friendly.

Also, I'd kind of question the quality of the work performed by the alarm guys. The thing about the Renault electronics reliablity would have been best mentioned before, not after they've done the job sad.gif


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zorpetus
post 8 May 2006, 12:40
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QUOTE(Stefan @ 8 May 2006, 12:11)
Based on your info, it looks like the UCH unit cannot be connected to by the dealer - the
*



UCH is entire "computer" in the car, not just some module that is in charge to for blocking ignition?

QUOTE
key here is "Press continue to show computer indetification" - if the ID is all 0's, then it's most likely bad wiring. If it's a long string of HEX numbers, it's a diagnosis software


Unfortunatelly I don't have that kind of information sad.gif
I've used a bit heavier JPG compression now, all images are around 30K - and managed to uploaded them now without any problem.

dijagnostika2.jpg ( Size: 22.02k ) Number of downloads: 1898


dijagnostika1.jpg ( Size: 32.64k ) Number of downloads: 1644


dijagnostika3.jpg ( Size: 27.61k ) Number of downloads: 1533



QUOTE
issue, probably. It can happen that the wiring for the alarm affected the UCH circuit - does the immo led blink when the alarm is armed? So, I guess you need to figure out



Yes, it blinks normally with or without alarm being activated.
And when he put the key inside and turn it to the "contact" position, LED for immo is turned off - meaning that key is being "recognised".

QUOTE
how the dealer found about your custom alarm? I'd say, go to another dealer -


Dealer asked if anything was done in non-Dacia service, and my friend admitted that alarm has been added as well as car-CD-radio (as Ambiance model comes without any kind of audio, just some wires for front speakers etc.).


QUOTE
Also, I'd kind of question the quality of the work performed by the alarm guys. The thing about the Renault electronics reliablity would have been best mentioned before, not after they've done the job sad.gif


Yeah, well, you know, most of those people have same approach: "I am the BEST, and I know everything, and it is NEVER my fault"... sad.gif


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DragosP
post 8 May 2006, 12:52
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QUOTE(zorpetus @ 8 May 2006, 13:40)
UCH is entire "computer" in the car, not just some module that is in charge to for blocking ignition?

UCH is "Unit Controle Habitacle".
The car has another "computers": for injection, for ABS (if has), for airbag (if has).
Did you remove the alarm? rolleyes.gif


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zorpetus
post 8 May 2006, 12:55
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QUOTE(DragosP @ 8 May 2006, 11:19)
Bullshit!
You should remove the car alarm. Remember that Logan isn't Laguna.
*




To remove it because :

- Service who installed it appears not to be qualified (yes, at one stage they told my friend that electronics inside of his Logan is same as in Renault Laguna)

or

- because it is very difficult to make alarm ("Cobra" or any other?) to work properly in Logan?

or

- because of something else?


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DragosP
post 8 May 2006, 12:56
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QUOTE(zorpetus @ 8 May 2006, 13:55)
To remove it because :

- Service who installed it appears not to be qualified (yes, at one stage they told my friend that electronics inside of his Logan is same as in Renault Laguna)


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zorpetus
post 8 May 2006, 12:56
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QUOTE(zorpetus @ 8 May 2006, 12:40)

Dealer asked if anything was done in non-Dacia service, and my friend admitted that alarm has been added as well as car-CD-radio (as Ambiance model comes without any kind of audio, just some wires for front speakers etc.).
*



I forgot to mention here (altough it was mentioned in other posts in the forum) that alarm has been installed without any ignition blocking feature - so with alarm engaged, if you have the coded key with you - you can drive the car without any problem (if you don't mind the siren and hazard lights blinking smile.gif )


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zorpetus
post 8 May 2006, 12:59
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QUOTE(DragosP @ 8 May 2006, 12:56)

*




And to go to other service (authorised Dacia) to install the alarm - or to give up of alarm installation?

Maybe to go to another (Dacia authorised) service, to make "inspection" of what was done and to pay extra to fix the problem ? (if problem now can be fixed).


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klaus
post 8 May 2006, 13:02
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It's a connection problem at UCH.
the connectors must be checked.

Also should be checked the way of power connection of alarm module (I have the feeling the alarm is connected directly to UCH power fuse, that is not correct)


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DragosP
post 8 May 2006, 13:03
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QUOTE(zorpetus @ 8 May 2006, 13:56)
I forgot to mention here (altough it was mentioned in other posts in the forum) that alarm has been  installed without any ignition blocking feature


It doesn't matter; some how it interfere with UCH.

Yes, go to a Dacia authorised service.


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novauto
post 8 May 2006, 15:59
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QUOTE(klaus @ 8 May 2006, 14:02)
It's a connection problem at UCH.
the connectors must be checked.

Also should be checked the way of power connection of alarm module (I have the feeling the alarm is connected directly to UCH power fuse, that is not correct)
*


Did you tried to remove alarm, or cut power supply for alarm.


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zorpetus
post 8 May 2006, 18:21
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QUOTE(novauto @ 8 May 2006, 15:59)
Did you tried to remove alarm, or cut power supply for alarm.
*




No, not yet because he can not easilly access the alarm installation - but that would be done as last solution.


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zorpetus
post 8 May 2006, 22:25
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QUOTE(DragosP @ 8 May 2006, 13:03)

Yes, go to a Dacia authorised service.
*





Today my friend visited official Dacia service and they told him that he must go back to the service where alarm has been installed, to remove it completely, and then they will put car back on diagnostic computer.

And as you may guess, in the service where alarm has been installed, when asked to remove it completely - were not happy at all - and still claim that they did everything "by the book" and that they will charge extra to put it alarm back "when even with alarm removed same problem would appear with Logan computer..." sad.gif

So, saga continues... wink.gif


My friends and my guess is that problem was caused, most likely, because person who installed alarm did something in a hurry, touched some wire, connector or similar in the area where alarm has been physically located (in the area behind the fuse box).

And my friend prays to God that such malfunction is visible to naked eye, because otherwise... sad.gif


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kodalo
post 9 May 2006, 00:38
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QUOTE(zorpetus @ 8 May 2006, 23:25)
Today my friend visited official Dacia service and they told him that he must go back to the service where alarm has been installed, to remove it completely, and then they will put car back on diagnostic computer.

And as you may guess, in the service where alarm has been installed, when asked to remove it completely - were not happy at all - and still claim that they did everything "by the book" and that they will charge extra to put it alarm back "when even with alarm removed same problem would appear with Logan computer..." sad.gif

So, saga continues... wink.gif
My friends and my guess is that problem was caused, most likely, because person who installed alarm did something in a hurry, touched some wire, connector or similar in the area where alarm has been physically located (in the area behind the fuse box).

And my friend prays to God that such malfunction is visible to naked eye, because otherwise... sad.gif
*



Well, fuse box is nice place for alarm, but I think it is to close to "live" wire so mistakes are possible. One my friend, who has alarm service, puts central unit above UCH.
I see a lot of nice places behind plastic cover under the steering wheel. I have made some kind of "support" and fix it with existing screws under plastic cover. Later I fix alarm unit to this support.
There are no any changes on interior and I can quick remove whole construction. It is also very safe, since theft must find unit, remove set to lie down, etc.
If you know is alarm now installed it is not necessary to remove whole unit. Simply remove connectors from unit and it is all, so there is no reason for extra charge to angry” alarm service.


This post has been edited by kodalo: 9 May 2006, 00:39


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novauto
post 9 May 2006, 08:09
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QUOTE(klaus @ 8 May 2006, 14:02)
It's a connection problem at UCH.
the connectors must be checked.

Also should be checked the way of power connection of alarm module (I have the feeling the alarm is connected directly to UCH power fuse, that is not correct)
*


Yes, it can be reason also , since UCH and diagnostic connector share the same fuse (marked as UCH on the fuse box cover plate). Becouse of that, diagnostic software didn't established communication with UCH properly.
I asked in one local service how they find signals for alarm (for new models, without wiring diagram) and got answer that the best place is computer box, i.e. UCH for Logan. sad.gif .
So, if your service has such approaching, everything is possible !!!

This post has been edited by novauto: 9 May 2006, 08:21


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zorpetus
post 9 May 2006, 22:25
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QUOTE(novauto @ 9 May 2006, 08:09)
Yes, it can be reason also , since UCH and diagnostic connector share the same fuse (marked as UCH on the fuse box cover plate). Becouse of that, diagnostic software
*




Following your advices (thank you ALL, very, very much!) my friend and me dared to have a look ourselves. It took us approx 2 hours, some borrowed screwdrivers and 2 litres of cold Coca-Cola smile.gif

Anyway, we found that alarm + has been connected to very thick red wire that (according to info on fuse box) should be used with aircondition (if installed). It seems to be permanent +12V, and fuse inside of the fuse box is missing since this car (Ambiance) has no aircondition. So, it wasn't +12V from fuse for UCH unit. Good. smile.gif



Next, and most important, I saw that this big multicontact connector to the UCH unit wasn't seated properly!!!!! sad.gif It needed a push between 0,5 and 1mm to be seated properly (to hear "click"). I am almost 100% positive that this was cause of the problem! (but will have to confirm with Dacia diagnostic computer though).


What was confusing to me that I've found one white wire cut-off just being there (?). Maybe this is for some factory wiring for radio? (Ambiance model)? I couldn't find the other end of this wire (if you cut a wire by accident you should have two ends, right? smile.gif ).
Is this "normal" ?


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kodalo
post 9 May 2006, 23:03
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QUOTE(zorpetus @ 9 May 2006, 23:25)
Following your advices (thank you ALL, very, very much!) my friend and me dared to have a look ourselves. It took us approx 2 hours, some borrowed screwdrivers and 2 litres of cold Coca-Cola smile.gif

Anyway, we found that alarm + has been connected to very thick red wire that (according to info on fuse box) should be used with aircondition (if installed). It seems to be permanent +12V, and fuse inside of the fuse box is missing since this car (Ambiance) has no aircondition. So, it wasn't +12V from fuse for UCH unit. Good. smile.gif

Right, I did the same.
QUOTE
What was confusing to me that I've found one white wire cut-off just being there (?). Maybe this is for some factory wiring for radio? (Ambiance model)? I couldn't find the other end of this wire (if you cut a wire by accident you should have two ends, right? smile.gif ).
Is this "normal" ?
*


Yes, my Ambiance also has one cut-off wire. It should be normal, but I also want to know what is should be used for.


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