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aphophis
E vorba de modelele ce au fost afectate de faptul ca au fost cazuri cand masina accelera singura, fara posibilitatea de a fi oprita foarte usor. Pana acum au dat vina pe covorase (care cica agatau), apoi pe designul pedalelor (recall in curs), problema fiind se pare la ecu . Se pare ca nici ei nu stiu 100% care e problema, cert e ca pe forumuri se discuta ca toyota nu are nu stiu ce sistem de protectie, ca atunci cand calci frana si acceleratia, frana sa aiba intaietate. Se pare ca sunt si modele europene implicate, stiu ca acum cateva zile ziceau ca vor face recall si la modelele europene:


QUOTE
Toyota has announced that it will halt sales of eight models due to its ongoing problems with unintended acceleration. At issue are accelerator pedal mechanisms that could get stuck in the open position due to wear, causing the vehicle to accelerate uncontrollably. Earlier this month, Toyota announced a recall of 2.3 million vehicles with the possible defect.

Late last year, the Japanese automaker recalled nearly four million vehicles for floor mats that could trap accelerator pedals, also causing unintended acceleration. The two issues are apparently unrelated, though a total of 1.7 million vehicles are affected by both issues.

The following eight models are included in the sales suspension (you can see them all in the gallery below):

    * 2009-2010 RAV4

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    * 2009-2010 Corolla

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    * 2009-2010 Matrix

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    * 2005-2010 Avalon
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    * Certain 2007-2010 Camry models

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    * 2010 Highlander

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    * 2007-2010 Tundra

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    * 2008-2010 Sequoia

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No Lexus or Scion sales have been halted, and due to the sales suspension of the above eight models, a number of manufacturing plants will be shut down for at least the week of February 1st. Click past the break for all the details on the recall and the plants being shuttered in North America.

*UPDATE: Toyota has confirmed to us that the Camry Hybrid and Highlander Hybrid are not included in the sales suspension. Toyota has also reiterated that no Lexus or Scion models are included as these cars are built in Japan.


27 Jan 2010, 20:01:
se pare ca toyota a fost (oarecum) obligata de nhtsa sa opreasca vanzarea modelelor cu probleme

QUOTE
Toyota has quite the PR nightmare on its hands. The boiling cauldron of complaints surrounding unintended acceleration issues bubbled over this month with two separate but giant recalls. The latest involves eight Toyota models that contain defective accelerator pedal mechanisms that could stick over time due to wear.

There is no fix available for the pedal mechanisms yet and dealers have continued to sell new models affected by the recall, so Toyota announced yesterday that it's suspending the sale and production of these eight models for the week of February 1. It was a bold move that made headlines, as Toyota stands to lose a lot of money. On the other hand, the Japanese automaker got some pats on the back for doing the right thing.

Turns out, the decision to stop producing these vehicles wasn't made by Toyota alone. The Detroit News reports that Toyota is required by law to stop selling the vehicles since there is no fix available yet. David Strickland, the new administrator of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, said that Toyota consulted with his agency, which informed the automaker of its obligations and it complied. That still doesn't answer why these recalled vehicles were being sold five days after the recall was announced.

Nevertheless, Toyota spokesman Mike Michels is reported saying that the company's decision to stop selling the recalled vehicles was voluntary, but that they also had a legal requirement to do so. How do you voluntary do something that you're obligated to do?

In related news, General Motors has confirmed to Autoblog's sister site, AOL Autos, that it is putting a hold on all remaining Pontiac Vibe sales, as the model is under recall for the same throttle issue that afflicts its mechanical twin, the Toyota Matrix. Fortunately for GM, there are apparently only six Vibe units left in stock nationwide as the brand's shutdown continues.


http://www.autoblog.com/2010/01/27/report-...d-mod/#comments
rtBK
si mitul japonezelor s-a....
C a t a l i n
Așa e, mai ales că nu e vorba de un mit, dar oricum noroc că încă stă în picioare mitul cum că americanii au ceva în cap...
aphophis
poate e si un mit, din moment ce la toyota cel putin recallurile vin pe banda rulanta. Si nu e vorba de covorase (altfel ar fi vandut masinile fara acele covorase), nu e vorba nici de o eroare de design a pedalelor , ci cel mai probabil problema vine de la ecu. Cel putin asta am citit eu pe forumurile americane. Si se pare ca totul se trage de la ritmul de crestere a toyotei, care in dorinta de a ajunge numarul 1 mondial, a grabit procesul de conceptie a modelelor sale, facand multe testatari pe calculator si prea putine testari in practica. De aici pornind problemele pe care le are toyota. Oricum in state s-a cam creat un curent anti toyota, datorita problemelor pe care le-au avut unele modele la motor (sludge nu stiu ce , cica a fost o eroare de proiectare a motoarelor pentru a "pacali" oarecum normele de poluare), cu rugina etc. Totul pornind de la faptul ca toyota a incercat sa puna batista pe tambal, in loc sa recunoasca problemele.
C a t a l i n
Ca fapt divers, sludge e cu totul altceva...
Că s-a creat curent anti Toyota în State ai dreptate... Că doar producătorii americani sunt în groapă... D-asta e Toyota strânsă cu ușa... Dacă ai gândi logic, fără ochelari de cal, ți-ai da seama că nici la ECU nu poate fi problema... ECU nu împiedică apăsarea frânei, și nici nu dezactivează ceva din sistemul de frânare...

Mă rog, fiecare crede ce vrea... smile.gif
aphophis
pai cica se poate sa fie de la ecu, din moment ce masina are drive by wire (adica daca am inteles eu bine, controlul e digital, practic informatia circula de la volan la roti & shit , digital). Nu stiu daca are de a face cu caderea celor 2 , insa toyota nu prea a putut sa dea explicatii despre ce se intampla cu adevarat cu masinile lor si de ce nu au dupa 6 luni de cand s-a aflat public despre asta, o rezolvare pentru aceste masini.
C a t a l i n
E drive by wire accelerația și eventual ambreiajul, dacă servesc ăia pe acolo așa ceva... Frâna nu e, e clasică...
Amintește-ți declarațiile căpcăunilor de la volan, cum că au apăsat frâna și mașina accelera... Încă mai crezi că au apăsat frâna în loc de accelerație?
Cu motorul turat la maxim, la orice mașină, dacă apeși frâna mașina reduce viteza și se oprește, pentru că sistemul de frânare e mult mai puternic decât motorul de pe acea mașină... nicidecum nu accelerează...
aphophis
haide bre crezi ca aia is dobitoci sa nu stie care e frana si care e acceleratia, si toti dobitocii astia sa se fi adunat doar la toyota? blink.gif Stiu ca s-a mai discutat, insa nu gasesc topicul, am dat link spre niste povesti ale unor americani care au patit, si spuneau clar ca ei apasau frana si masina in loc sa franeze accelera. Parca dadusem exemplu unei tipe cu un prius ce a patit chestia asta. SI parca tin minte ca ziceau astia ca atat acceleratia cat si frana sunt "fly by wire"
C a t a l i n
Așa ziceau? Păi fly by wire e la avioane... Dacă ei nu fac diferența între a conduce și a zbura, vrei să mai știe ce pedală apasă?
aphophis
nu ei ziceau ci media, aia de pe forumuri.. acuma seriosi, la fel toyota prima data i-a acuzat pe proprietari (erau si niste procese pornite impotriva toyota, pt ca stia de probleme, dar le-a ascuns). ca apoi sa zica ca stai putin, ca parca ar fi o problema dar e de la covorase. Ca apoi sa revina si sa zica ca nu e de la covorase ci de la designul pedalelor. Pana la urma se pare ca e de la ecu..
C a t a l i n
Nu uita că SUA e țara în care sunt etichete de tipul "idiot proof" peste tot, mai multe și mai hilare decât în orice altă parte. În plus NHTSA nu e cel mai obiectiv organ în măsură să investigheze, iar constatările de care zici sunt ale lor, nu ale Toyota... Și încă o chestie, înțeleg că SUA e piața numărul 1 de desfacere pt Toyota, dar modele similare, și dacă nu modele, măcar subansamble identice se vând în toată lumea... Cum dracu n-a rămas nimeni fără frână decât acolo?
aphophis
mai asa o fi ca acolo daca esti idiot si ai noroc de o firma care sa calce pe bec, poti sa scoti multi bani, insa asta nu inseamna ca automat nu exista probleme la toyota. Nu ti se pare suspect cum toyota inca bajbaie in gasirea solutiei pt aceasta problema?
C a t a l i n
Păi dacă se luptă cu morile de vânt... E cam greu să reproduci evenimentul, fără să încurci pedalele... Toyota trebuie să demonstreze că ăia n-au frânat... Cam greu...
Garett
Mai bine ar aduce modele alea la un pret rezonabil pe piata noastra!
M-as baga la un Highlander hibrid, vandut la pretul din State, chiar si cu probleme la franare. tongue.gif
Acum la modul serios chiar nu i se pare nimanui dubios ca Toyota are "brusc" probleme tocmai cand GM scartaie si ar fi in pericol sa-si piarda intaietatea la vanzari?
N-ar fi prima data cand americanii folosesc mijloace "neortodoxe" ca sa-si protejeze industria. Mai ales ca din cate vad sunt modele din gamele cele mai vandute in State si concurenti direct pentru GM (Chevy Malibu vs. Camry, GMC toata gama vs Highlander, Tundra si Sequoia).
rtBK
garett tocmai ca zilele trecute citisem o stire cum ca GM nu mai face fata la comenzi si au marit productia.
Squirrel
În legătură cu accidentele respective, eu unul înțelesesem la momentul respectiv că era o problemă de proiectare a priorităților în ECU. În speță, ECU acorda o prioritate mai mare accelerării decât frânării, reducând puterea către servofrână - se considera că necesitatea de a accelera este mai pregnantă decât aceea de a frâna. Cum pedala era înțepenită de covoraș, servofrâna nu făcea față, forța de frânare directă neputând balansa forța de accelerare.

Postul de aici.
aphophis
exact de asta ziceam in privinta ecu-ului. Cat despre recall si teoria conspiratiei, ma indoiesc, mai ales ca toyota se pare ca va face un recall la nivel mondial..

QUOTE
TheDetroitBureau.com is reporting that Toyota is currently in discussions with other world governments and safety agencies about expanding its latest recall involving defective accelerator pedal mechanisms that may cause unintended acceleration. Eight models are included in the current U.S. recall, which affects some 2.3 million Toyota branded vehicles. Without a fix for the issue, Toyota is required by law to stop production and sales of the vehicles, which it did yesterday – some five days after the recall was announced. Toyota also announced another recall earlier this month affecting 4.2 million vehicles with floor mats that could trap accelerator pedals, also causing unintended acceleration, and while the two issues are said to be unrelated, around 1.7 million vehicles are affected by both recalls.

At the heart of this latest recall are accelerator pedal mechanisms produced by Indiana-based CTS Corp. at its plant in Mississauga, Ontario. What's not immediately known is whether the pedal mechanisms produced by CTS Corp. have been used in any models sold outside North America, or whether the problem with these parts is in their manufacturing or an issue with their design, choice of materials, etc. If it's the latter, the defective pedal mechanisms could be produced in other Toyota supplier plants around the world and be used in millions more vehicles than the ones covered by this latest recall in the U.S.

Toyota has not officially commented whether or not its considering expanding the recall to other markets, or other brands like Lexus and Scion. Stay tuned as more news about Toyota and its recall woes continues to surface.


http://www.autoblog.com/2010/01/27/report-...-recall-global/
C a t a l i n
Vezi că iar te contrazici prin citatele pe care le dai... Ba e ECU, ba e mecanismul pedalei de accelerație, ba nu frânează... wacko.gif

Cât despre servofrână, având în vedere principiul de funcționare al acesteia, sunt curios cum poate fi aceasta dezactivată de ECU, și în ce scop ar fi fost proiectat să facă asta... wacko.gif
aphophis
e vorb de ce zicea colegul de mai sus. Ca se acorda o importanta mai mare acceleratiei decat franei. Se pare ca e ceva scris aiurea in codul ala. Nu m-a mira sa fie un cumul de factori de fapt si sa fie toate 3 smile.gif
b76bgaarh
si tot ce e japonez e bun...

e atat de greu sa recunosti ca toyota a facut o prostie..si acum nu stie sa o mai dreaga.... mama sunteti mai fanatici decat tdi stii

iar teoria conspiratiei americane cade..pt ca afectate sunt fabricile din SUA...unde se produc aceste modele...
C a t a l i n
Băi inginerilor, ce treabă are frâna cu ECU? Ce prioritate? Astea sunt povești scornite să facă credibilă mizeria asta...

Mă mir că în România nu s-a materializat nicio mizerie d-asta... Că doritori de a scoate bani de pe spinarea unei firme mari sunt și pe aici destui... Dar probabil n-au găsit încă un context favorabil și nici legislația nu le e foarte propice...
aphophis
eu nu am cunostine foarte bune auto dar mi se pare de bun simt. Daca semnalele de la frana, acceleratie sunt trimise digital inspre ecu , daca functia de accelerare are prioritate in fata franei, atunci ala va incerca mai intai sa accelereze inainte sa permita franarea. Nu stim noi cum e scris softul ala si nici ce merge prost (ca daca ar fi fost asa, probabil isi dadea si toyota seama si nu se mai facea de kko) , insa cei mai multi zic ca nu au de a face in nici un caz cu covorasele alea si nici cu prostia utilizatorilor. Deci e o problema de-a masinii.
b76bgaarh
iar tu maersk ca un adevarat specialist roman in toyota america.. ai gasit problema..... americanii sunt de vina....

revin cu afirmatia... este atat de greu sa recunosti ca toyota e de cacao la aceasta faza si au facut ce fac toti producatorii: profit reducand calitatea...
IRONICK
Acum o saptamana era un reportaj la nemti, o baba si-a furat-o de la un bmw. A sarit in balta cu o masina. Testau aia covorase, isi dadeau cu parerea tot specialistii, bla, bla...
C a t a l i n
Frâna e MECANICĂ!!!
b76bgaarh
serios.... nu e servoasista??? nu cumva e electrica asistarea aia??? ai vazut tu schema la modelul de america... ca nu are si o comanda data din unitatea centrala....
R19/16v
Si acum va veti intreba de ce e inchis threadul, oare?

Cand aveti informatii noi apasati butonul user posted image
aphophis
se pare ca problema e destul de serioasa, toyota extinde recallul si in europa si in china: http://www.detnews.com/article/20100128/AU...xtends-to-China



QUOTE
Just as we reported yesterday, Toyota has confirmed the recall announced last week for sticking accelerator pedals will be expanded beyond the U.S. and soon include Europe.

Up until now, the recall had affected only eight models built in North America at plants that were supplied defective accelerator pedal mechanisms by Indiana-based CTS Corp. Certain other models, specifically all Lexus and Scion models, were excluded from the recall because they are built in Japan and use a similar part but from a different supplier. It's unclear exactly where Toyota's European assembly plants got the defective mechanisms, from CTS Corp. or another supplier manufacturing the same defective part.

As of yet, Toyota isn't certain how many vehicles in Europe will be affected by the sticky accelerator recall, saying "the models and exact number of potentially affected vehicles is under investigation." However, unlike here in the U.S. where production for all eight recalled models is being halted for a week on February 1, production in Europe will continue as a replacement part has already been implemented in the production process.

Until the official recall is issued, Toyota is encouraging concerned European customers to contact customer service for assistance. Follow the jump for the announcement from the company's UK headquarters.



http://www.autoblog.com/2010/01/28/confirm...urope/#comments
aphophis
se pare ca probleme acceleratiei toyota, ce o ia razna a intrat si in vizorul "parlamentului" (ca nu stiu cum sa ii zic mai bine) american, pentru a investiga felul cum toyota a tratat aceasta problema. Totodata investigheaza si felul cum acest incident a fost dat "uitarii " de nhtsa , urmat de trecerea unui angajat nhtsa la toyota

QUOTE
As it's wont to do, the U.S. House of Representatives has decided to investigate Toyota over its recent recalls involving possible unintended acceleration caused by both floor mats and defective accelerator pedal mechanisms. The House Energy and Commerce committee will hold a hearing on February 25 to "examine the persistent consumer complaints of sudden unintended acceleration in vehicles manufactured by Toyota Motor Corporation," this according to committee chairman Henry Waxman, D-Calif (above). Not only will Toyota be on the hot seat, but the committee will also investigate how well the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has handled the situation.

The Detroit News reports that Toyota officials already met with members of the committee on Wednesday. They were asked to provide the committee with information and documents and will be expected to answer questions at the hearing about when they first learned of cases involving unintended acceleration in their vehicles and what steps were taken to safeguard customers who might be at risk. They'll probably also be asked about the connection between NHTSA and Toyota through one Mr. Christopher Santucci, a former NHTSA employee who took a job with Toyota around the same time these issues were first being investigated.

It's also fair to point out that this isn't the first time a recall has gained the attention of Capitol Hill. The recall involving Firestone tires on Ford Explorers in 2000 sparked Congressional hearings, for instance.



http://www.autoblog.com/2010/01/28/breakin...toyota-recalls/
rtBK
Oarecum ontopic se pare ca si la honda urmeaza un recall:

646.000 de masini din modele Jazz si City, vandute in intreaga lume, vor fi rechemate la reparatii de constructorul auto nipon Honda din cauza unei defectiuni la instalatia electrica a geamurilor, care poate cauza incendii.

Potrivit Reuters, Honda a luat aceasta hotarare dupa ce un copil a murit anul trecut intr-un incendiu provocat de respectiva defectiune.

Respectivele masini au fost vandute in Europa, America de Nord, America de Sud, Asia, dar nu si Japonia.

Constructorul auto va verifica si modifica comutatoarele electrice de pe usa din partea șoferului, deoarece acestea, in unele cazuri, se pot scurtcircuita in urma contactului cu apa.

Ce au patit japonezele astea oare?
aphophis
la honda e un recall oarecum normal, desi apare la o marca care se lauda cu fiabilitatea modelelor sale. La toyota insa e mai nasol, atat prin numarul masinilor afectate, prin felul cum trateaza situatia cat si prin gravitatea problemelor. Oricum vestile proaste continua la Toyota , au facut recall oficial si la masinile vandute in europa, la urmatoarele modele: Auris, Avensis, Aygo, Corolla, iQ, RAV4 Verso si Yaris . Oricum, is curios daca vor suspenda vanzarile la modelele astea in europa , la fel cum au facut si in state.. Si parerea mea e ca problema nu e de furnizor (caci au mai multi furnizori) ci probabil e problema de conceptie..



QUOTE
As expected, Toyota Europe announced details today surrounding the recall of cars for defective accelerator pedal mechanisms that began in the U.S. Like the U.S. recall that involves 2.3 million vehicles across eight model lines, the European recall also involves eight models: the Auris, Avensis, Aygo, Corolla, iQ, RAV4 Verso and Yaris. All told, about 1.8 million vehicles are involved.

Unlike in the U.S., Toyota Europe will not be suspending production of any models because replacement parts are already being used at its various assembly plants. What's interesting to note is that some of those plants are located in Japan, specifically ones that build the Corolla and RAV4. Until now, the reason given for all Lexus and Scion models being excluded from the recall was that they were built exclusively in Toyota's native country and used an accelerator pedal mechanism sourced from a different supplier, not CTS Corp. that manufactured the defective part for North American plants.

Whether or not this means the recall could be expanded even further, perhaps to include vehicles from other Toyota brands, remains to be seen, but the fact that the defective part in question has now popped up on the other side of the Atlantic suggests that the problem lies in its design and not how it was manufactured by the supplier.


http://www.autoblog.com/2010/01/29/officia...dels-1-8-milli/
rtBK
AYGO (produs intre februarie 2005 si august 2009),
iQ (noiembrie 2008-noiembrie 2009),
Yaris (noiembrie 2005-septembrie 2009),
Auris (octombrie 2006-ianuarie 2010),
Corolla (octombrie 2006-decembrie 2009),
Verso (februarie 2009-ianuarie 2010),
Avensis (noiembrie 2008-decembrie 2009),
RAV4 (noiembrie 2005-noiembrie 2009)
aphophis
psa confirma ca recall-ul toyota va afecta si modelele sale produse in colaborare cu toyota: peugeot 107 si citroen c1:

QUOTE
a estaba esperándolo todo el mundo, así que PSA ha decidido quitarse el asunto de encima y hacerlo oficial: los Citroën C1 y Peugeot 107 serán revisados para lidiar con los aceleradores defectuosos que tantos dolores de cabeza están generando a Toyota. Dado que ambos son hermanos del Aygo y los tres son fabricados en la misma planta, no es de extrañar que el problema se haya extendido a toda la familia.

El grupo francés, por el momento, no ha identificado las unidades afectadas, aunque dice que hay cerca de 100.000 vehículos con aceleradores sospechosos de poder adquirir "vida propia". En el caso del Toyota Aygo, todos los fabricados entre febrero de 2005 y agosto de 2009 deberán ser revisados, así que es de suponer una horquilla parecida para los modelos de Peugeot y Citroë


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user posted image
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Amedeus
QUOTE(IRONICK @ 28 Jan 2010, 11:46)
Acum o saptamana era un reportaj la nemti, o baba si-a furat-o de la un bmw. A sarit in balta cu o masina. Testau aia covorase, isi dadeau cu parerea tot specialistii, bla, bla...
*



Confirm. L-am vazut si eu. smile.gif
mihai24
[quote=aphophis,30 Jan 2010, 23:47]
psa confirma ca recall-ul toyota va afecta si modelele sale produse in colaborare cu toyota: peugeot 107 si citroen c1:


Aha, si la 107 tot de la ECU e cred, are frana electronica saracul radmasa.gif radmasa.gif

Frate in afara sa copii niste informatii cu copy/paste de pe net intelegi ceva din ce inseamna fenomenul auto?!!.....

Ai ani de zile de cand postezi pe forumuri auto, macar sa fi lucrat in domeniu in perioada asta daca tot iti place asa mult, ca poate numai spuneai aberatii, si intelegeai si tu una alta
aphophis
inseamna ca toti abereaza cand zic ca s-ar putea sa fie de la ecu smile.gif si vezi "frate" ca nu am zis ca sigur e de acolo ci ca s-ar putea sa fie de acolo. Frate, care esti mancati-as smile.gif


btw frate stii tu sigur frate ca trio-ul nu are frana "electronica" ? . Haide zi-ne frate ca ne-ai facut curiosi frate tongue.gif
fansuv
US car dealers urge calm over Toyota recalls

http://www.euronews.net/2010/01/31/us-car-...toyota-recalls/

US car dealers have appealed for calm following Toyota’s recall of 5.6 million vehicles that could suffer from sudden acceleration.

The move has sparked an unprecendented sales and production halt, with the problem also affecting its luxury Lexus models as well.

Although the recall was announced last week, the problem is suspected of causing 19 deadly crashes over the past decade.

Cody Lusk, President of the American International Automobile Dealers Association, said: “We’re trying to reassure as many customers as we can that the fix is going to come sooner rather than later, but the most important thing is we want to get it right.”

Europe too is affected by Toyota’s recall, as is PSA Peugeot Citroen.

The French firm jointly makes cars at a factory in the Czech Republic and is recalling 100,000 Peugeot 107 and Citroen C1 models.



Toyota a ascuns multi ani diferite defectiuni care se vedeau clar in service.
Nu le declarau ca sa fie primii in topul fiabilitatii.
aphophis
btw, pentru fratele mihai24 radmasa.gif uite bre frate ca trio-ul are si el pedala la fel ca modelele americane radmasa.gif frate

QUOTE
The massive Toyota sticking-accelerator pedal recall has spread from the United States to Europe and even beyond Toyota-branded vehicles. Approximately 90,000 Peugeot 107 and Citroën C1 minicars have been added to the list of afflicted models. PSA, the parent of Peugeot and Citroën, has a joint venture with Toyota in the Czech Republic that produces the 107, C1 and the related Toyota Aygo.

The minis share the same electronic pedal assembly design used in the 2.3 million Toyotas being recalled in North America, as well a 1.8 million vehicles in Europe. In addition to the Aygo, Toyota has identified the iQ, Yaris, Auris, Corolla, Verso, Avensis and Rav4 in Europe. In total Toyota is recalling 7.5 million vehicles worldwide.

We don't know for sure but it seems unlikely with this many vehicles involved around the world that CTS is the sole supplier of these parts. If CTS is not the only supplier then it appears likely that the issue is more of a design problem than a manufacturing issue at one plant or supplier. It is also possible that it could be a software issue unrelated to the hardware itself.



http://www.autoblog.com/2010/01/31/toyota-...itroen-in-euro/
aphophis
un video interesant despre pedala asta care o ia razna :


"fratele" mihai24 o sa aiba o surpriza cam pe la secunda 0.27 , unde se vede ca acolo nu e nici o legatura mecanica intre motor si pedala de acceleratie , ci este o legatura electrica. M-ar mira ca frana sa nu aiba acelasi tratament
r_vlad
Ti-a mai spus cineva cum sta treaba cu pedala de frana ...
Intre timp a fost facuta publica solutia gasita de Toyota pentru remedierea problemei: [attachmentid=1627589341]
Aici este explicata problema si solutia direct pe ansamblul potentiometrului pedalei: http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/toyota-ga...clusive-photos/
Ce imi place asta: "Precision cut steel" smile.gif ... saiba
aphophis
radmasa.gif intr-adevar, mare inginerie. Btw, unul dintre cei care sustine ca problema e de software (deci fixul asta pregatit de toyota e apa de ploaie) Steve Wozniak , co-fondatorul Apple, sustine ca si el a patit chestia asta si ca mai mult o poate repeta.

QUOTE
More problems may be lurking for Toyota. Speaking at an event in San Francisco on Monday, Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak waxed eloquent about a "very scary" problem with his 2010 Toyota Prius.
2010 Toyota Prius

2010 Toyota Prius
(Credit: Toyota)

Wozniak was speaking at Discovery Forum 2010 when he went off topic for a few minutes and spoke about problems with his 2010 Toyota Prius.

"I don't get upset and teed off at things in life, except computers that don't work right," was his segue into the Toyota comments. Then he said he had been trying to get through to Toyota and the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration (NHTSA) for three months but could not get anyone to explore an alleged software-related acceleration problem--as described below.

"Toyota has this accelerator problem we've all heard about," Wozniak said. "Well, I have many models of Prius that got recalled, but I have a new model that didn't get recalled. This new model has an accelerator that goes wild but only under certain conditions of cruise control. And I can repeat it over and over and over again--safely."

"This is software. It's not a bad accelerator pedal. It's very scary, but luckily for me I can hit the brakes," he said.

Toyota said it investigates all complaints. "We're in the business of investigating complaints, assessing problems and finding remedies," said John Hanson, national manager environmental safety and quality communications at Toyota. "After man years of exhaustive testing we have not found any evidence of an electronic [software] problem that would have led to unwanted acceleration."


http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-10445564-64.html
Stefan
http://www.2theadvocate.com/news/suburban/...l?showAll=y&c=y

QUOTE(Man’s truck strikes BR Toyota dealership)
Mikel Valviva sought to return his truck to the dealership at 9150 Airline Highway, saying he no longer wanted it because of the recall on the accelerator, Lee said.

The dealership’s manager, Joe Costanza, offered to repair Valviva’s truck and loan him a car in the meantime, Lee said.

Matt McKay, owner of the All Star Automotive Group, said Costanza explained to Valviva on three separate occasions on Saturday that the dealership could not refund his money for the truck.

McKay said the process during the recall requires dealerships to provide a loaner car while the recalled vehicle is repaired.

Valviva refused the offers and tried to leave the dealership, but his gas pedal stuck, Lee said. The truck accelerated forward, striking the building, Lee said.

EMS personnel treated Valviva and his passenger  for minor injuries on scene, Lee said.

McKay said a cosmetic column on the building received only minor damage.

Costanza confirmed Valviva’s truck is one of the models included in the recall, Lee said.
fansuv
Totusi e o problema grava. Sa nu poti sa controlezi pedalele automobilului este grav.
De ce nu s-a observat mai devreme problema? CA sa iasa cea mai fiabila?


AU INCEPUT PROCESELE:

Already facing a blitz of negative media coverage and a growing wave of class-action suits, Toyota has now been hit with another serious-sounding wrongful death lawsuit.

Trina Renee Harris, a 34-year-old mother of two, died last year when her Toyota Corolla sped through a stop sign in Houston and smashed into a cement wall.

Her husband, Michael Harris, filed suit Monday against Toyota, gas pedal maker CTS Corp. and Fred Haas Toyota World, which leased the car. Lawyers involved say it’s likely the third wrongful-death case filed in response to Toyota’s acceleration problems. Here’s a report from the Houston Chronicle.

“I want those who were negligent to be held responsible This problem was there before Dec. 18 when she died,” Michael Harris said. The Navy officer recently had completed a stint on an aircraft carrier in the Middle East and was in San Diego when he learned of his wife’s death, the Chron reports. He returned to Houston, where the family opened Christmas gifts Trina Harris had bought.

“I have a whirlwind of emotions. I’m extremely angry for my children. She won’t be there for the prom. When they get married, she won’t be there,” Harris said in an interview at the offices of his Houston attorneys, Ken and Judy Mingledorff. The suit seeks $200 million in actual and punitive damages.

Toyota has recalled millions of vehicles and has issued what it says is a fix to the acceleration problem.

A Toyota spokeswoman told the Chron that the company would not comment on pending litigation. A manager at Fred Haas said they have not yet seen the suit and calls to CST Corp. were not returned.

http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2010/02/02/toyota...al-woes-deepen/
aphophis
cum sa iasa cea mai fiabila, daca au probleme de proiectare? smile.gif
aphophis
Problema e globala deci..nu se datoreaza unui singur furnizor buclucas ci e o eroare de proiectare/programare



Toyota va rechema in service-uri pentru verificari 180.000 de masini vandute in
Orientul Mijlociu, Africa si America de Sud. Cauza este aceeasi pedala de acceleratie.


QUOTE
Esential

180.000de masini vor fi rechemate in service-urile Toyota din Orientul Mijlociu, Africa si America de Sud.

Toyota a anuntat astazi ca va extinde recall-ul cauzat de posibila blocare a pedalei de acceleratie si pe alte piete in afara celor deja anuntate oficial. Astfel, conform biroului de presa a constructorului japonez, unele modele pe care Toyota le-a vandut in orientul Mijlociu, Africa si America Latina vor fi si ele rechemate la service pentru verificari si schimbarea pedalei.
Sub incidenta recall-ului se afla circa 180.000 de masini care se adauga celor 8 milioane deja rechemate de Toyota in service la nivel mondial din cauza unui potential defect al pedalei de acceleratie.
Conform purtatorului de cuvant al companiei, Ririko Takeuchi, grupul japonez a identificat in Orientul Mijlociu 40.000 de exemplare Toyota Avalon (2005 si 2010) si Toyota Sequoia (2009-2010). Africa contribuie la recall cu 80.000 de unitati, in timp ce America Latina vine cu alte 60.000 de masini. In aceste doua zone, Toyota nu a anuntat inca modelele afectate.


http://www.automarket.ro/stiri/recall-ul-t...tina-28085.html
aphophis
Se pare ca si guvernul sua are o vina in treaba asta cu pedala ce o ia razna la toyota, pentru ca din 2004 au pornit o investigatie pe aceasta problema, care insa a fost trasa pe linie moarta dupa ce unul din cei ce se ocupa de problema , si-a gasit un nou loc de munca la toyota. Deci toyota stia de prin 2004 de problema asta..


After NHTSA investigator hired by Toyota, serious unintended acceleration cases ignored

QUOTE
The more we learn about Toyota's rumored relationship with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, the less we like it. Remember the claim that the government agency may have known about unintended acceleration issues as early as 2004? ABC News does, and the news network has been doing its best Sherlock Holmes work in an effort to learn more about the potentially damaging claims.

The ABC News investigation revealed that NHTSA wrote a memorandum limiting unintended acceleration claims to episodes lasting two seconds or less when the brake was never applied. The report states that the memorandum came down after agency representative Scott Yon met with two former colleagues (including Chris Santucci) who left the government to work for Toyota. Santucci testified back in December that the limited scope of investigations "worked out well for both the agency and Toyota."

Also in question is whether federal safety investigators are included in a federal law that states that "an employee in the executive branch is barred for two years after leaving government service from representing any matter under the employee's previous official responsibility." Santucci left his job at NHTSA six months before he reportedly negotiated the terms of the investigation with his ex-colleagues.

According to ABC News, the limited scope of the investigations ruled out 26 of the original 37 claims of unintended acceleration. A reported 25 of those 26 incidents led to an accident or crash, and since those incidents were outside of the scope of the investigations, NHTSA never looked into the incidents. Sean Kane of Safety Research & Strategies told ABC News that the narrow scope of the investigation meant "NHTSA almost ensured they wouldn't have enough complaint data to take action."

The extremely limited and nonsensical scope of the investigations between 2004 and 2007 continually failed to show any failures, and Toyota routinely pointed that out when the subject was brought up even in the weeks that led to the original recall of 3.8 million floor mats in the fall of 2009. In fact, ABC News claims that a document provided by Toyota to NHTSA stated that the Japanese automaker would not even submit a report to the government "in which the customer alleged that they could not control a vehicle by applying the brake."


http://www.autoblog.com/2010/02/05/report-...serious-uninte/
aphophis
se pare ca indirect toyota recunoaste ca problema e de soft. Astfel incat toate modelele care vor fi lansate in viitor de toyota vor avea, ceea ce exista standard la alti constructori de o gramada de ani. Brake override function, prin care frana are prioritate atunci cand se calca frana si acceleratia in acelasi timp. Si cum controalele sunt "by wire" , chestia asta se va face din soft. Deci recunosc ca problemele actuale sunt din soft

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/fe...-system-corolla
Squirrel
Era quasi-evident atât timp cât la apăsarea pedalei de frână(concomitent cu cea de accelerație prin blocare) soft-ul nu activa servofrâna…Dar Toyota rezolvă deocamdată una din cauze (cauza imediată și vizibilă - blocarea pedalei de accelerație - prin limitarea cursei acesteia pentru a nu ajunge la poziția de potențial blocaj) și apoi, pe îndelete, vor rezolva cauza majoră(gestionarea resurselor autovehiculului) printr-o vizită la service (și aici e o chichiță: vor veni și vor face resoft-area sau schimbarea calculatorului vinovat în mare parte doar cei în garanție, ceilalți urmând eventual să plătească operațiunea ca un „moft”). Și este una din firmele cu pretenții…
Vreau să cred că problemele acestea sunt unice la Toyota…poate că da, poate că nu.
aphophis
se pare ca un profesor de ceva chestii auto la o universitate americana, a reusit sa duplice problema accelerarii bruste, fara ca aceasta sa lase urme de erori in softul masinii. Chestie ce poate fi declansata si natural, printr-un scurtcircuit declansat de umezeala ce ajunge la controale. Urmariti video-ul de aici : http://www.autoblog.com/2010/02/22/video-s...en-acceleratio/


IRONICK
To(yo)tal Recall

http://drive-test.ro/stiri/1471/to%28yo%29tal-recall.html

QUOTE
Na, ca dadu si peste noi recall-ul Toyota! Ce mai freamat, ce mai zbucium! Forumurile romanesti s-au inrosit de glumele scrise de posesorii altor marci, care mai de care mai fericiti ca nu doar ei isi petrec zilele prin service-uri si ca in sfarsit si-au 'furat-o' si japonezii. Pai nu?

Pai da, insa ceea ce face Toyota zilele acestea se cheama 'punerea clientului mai presus de primul loc in ceasul al treisprezecelea', oficialii japonezi asumandu-si niste pierderi financiare pe care altii nici nu s-ar fi gandit sa le accepte. Si asta doar pentru ca o mana de oameni au intrat prin copaci dupa ce li s-a blocat pedala de acceleratie iar ei n-au fost nici macar in stare sa mute maneta cutiei de viteze in punctul mort si sa franeze (da, e atat de simplu). Sa-mi amintesc oare de cate masini cu probleme similare am condus? Pai ia chiar...
 

Dacia ar fi trebuit probabil sa-si recheme in service toate Daciile 1300, daca s-ar fi luat dupa miile de cazuri in care pedala de acceleratie se lipea de podea si acolo ramanea, infipta in covorasul persan al lui nea Gheorghe, care inlocuise mult-prea-neinteresantul covoras din cauciuc furnizat de UAP. Rechemari in service? Poate la Bucur Obor, sectiunea covoare si carpete de perete.

Opelul Vectra productie '92 a incercat sa ma ucida de doua ori intr-un an de zile, tot cu pedala de acceleratie blocata, in covorasul de cauciuc al producatorului de data asta. Dar nu m-am gandit sa dau in judecata Russelheim-ul pentru atata chestie, pur si simplu am pus in punctul mort, am ridicat pedala cu varful pantofului si cu asta basta.

La Renault-ul Megane Sedan problema nu venea de la pedala, ci tot de la covorasele de cauciuc, acestea intrand cu usurinta sub pedalier, mai rau fiind ca nu mai puteai pune frana cand ti-era lumea mai draga. N-am auzit de vreun recall iar problema s-a rezolvat cu succes punand un covoras cauciucat de dimensiuni mai mici acolo.

Sa mai amintesc de Skoda Fabia, de Citroen C4 sau de Opel Astra la care daca ai bocanci in picioare risti sa apesi simultan pe frana si pe acceleratie? Sau de imposibilitatea de a muta in marsarier la cutiile manuale de la BMW daca nu esti culturist, chestie destul de nasoala daca tocmai esti angajat intr-o manevra de intoarcere si vine un camion spre tine?...

Sau de vizibilitatea execrabila pe timp de ploaie si mazga din orice Fiat, Kia, Hyundai sau alta masina de volum, cu precadere din hatchbackuri, cauzata de stergatoarele ieftinache oferite, care sunt incapabile sa curete cum se cuvine parbrizul si luneta? Sau de zilele petrecute in service de TDImea de pe la noi din cauze atat de diverse si de grave incat ma mir ca grupul VAG nu e in topul listei de reclamatii la OPC?

Sa mai amintesc ca in Romania inca primesti masina nou-nouta echipata cu cauciucuri de vara chiar daca o iei in noiembrie, fortandu-te sa intri in primul pom cand da prima burnita sau sa decartezi instant alti bani pe anvelope de iarna? Asta tine tot de siguranta, dar o luam ca de la sine inteles, nu?

Nu minimalizez problema celor de la Toyota. In definitiv, si-au cladit o imagine si un imperiu auto marsand exact pe chestiunea fiabilitatii. Si iata ca tocmai ei au facut rabat de la calitate intr-o zona in care chiar n-ai voie sa gresesti. Mai rau, se pare ca au incercat sa musamalizeze treaba asta in SUA, ceea ce le poate aduce niste amenzi cat profitul pe 5 ani.

Insa rechemarea in service a celor de la Toyota*, desi spectaculoasa prin magnitudinea sa, nu este totusi ceva iesit din comun. Si ceilalti producatori mentionati mai sus practica asta. Doar ca foarte rar isi recheama masinile pentru chestiuni care ar pune in pericol viata celor din masina, desi am enumerat doar cateva dintre problemele cunoscute ale acestor marci, care exact asta fac. Nu, ei prefera sa le ignore, iar clientii nu isi dau seama ca problema tine de multe ori de proiectant si de producator, nu de elemente adaugate de ei. Iar de murit, poti muri din oricare dintre aceste motive daca te afli la locul nepotrivit in momentul nepotrivit.

Cel mai probabil ca marketingii Toyota vor folosi aceasta ocazie pentru a invata din greseli si a veni cu oferte si mai serioase, la fel cum au facut cei de la Mercedes dupa ce au aflat ca micutul A li se transforma in V daca trageai mai cu... elan de volan.

De exemplu, in Romania au inceput prin a oferi garantie de 5 ani. E un bun inceput in lupta cu sud-coreenii care ofera 7 ani. Vor urma probabil doua-trei seppuku la varf in Japonia si dotari mai consistente in zona de siguranta standard. Si mai ales multe milioane de dolari cheltuiti pe refacerea imaginii unui colos auto care nu se mai poate opri...

Intr-o lume in care aparentele sunt totul, tocmai japonezii vor trebui sa demonstreze din nou ca sunt maestri in a-si salva imaginea terfelita de o banala bucata de metal lipsa. Asta, pana vine altul la rand, sau pana invata cu totii ca nu mai trebuie sa ascunda gunoiul sub pres ci sa actioneze rapid in folosul clientului.

Adrian Mihaltianu

Februarie 2010

*Toyota Motor Europe a anuntat astazi rechemarea in service a 8 modele pentru rezolvarea unei potentiale probleme la pedala de acceleratie.

Modelele vizate si perioadele de productie sunt urmatoarele:

Aygo (Feb 2005-Aug 2009)

iQ (Nov 2008-Nov 2009)

Yaris (Nov 2005-Sep 2009)

Auris (Oct 2006-5 Jan 2010)

Corolla (Oct 2006-Dec 2009)

Verso (Feb 2009-5 Ian 2010)

Avensis (Nov 2008-Dec 2009)


Rav4 (Nov 2005-Nov 2009)
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