When I bought mine Loga, it came with Montana M801 tyres, 185/65R15. There were few words about these, I can add than they perform well in dry, but in wet and snow it's disaster. But I've driven 45.000 km and still have sme 6 mm left in front, and rear are as new.
I'm thinking about replacing those tyres with 2 pcs of Continental Premiumcontact2 and 2 pcs of Goodyear Ultragrip7.......
Does anybody have some expirience with those tyres?

montana for summer, dry conditions

good choice with Goodyear Ultragrip7

First of all, why did you let your tires wear out so unevenly, why didn't you switch them between front and rear axles, at least once a year if not more often (say, on every regular service)?

I've got Continental tires on my Logan (type Ecocontact, I think), but I have it for only 6 months (and 3200 km), so it's still early for some conclusions, especially under slippery conditions, since this winter was almost without snow.

I was able to experience with them a slight under-steering effect in very sharp turns (under dry conditions) though, as a result of a combination of Logan's rather soft suspension and soft side walls of the tires.

But even that was a lot less then what I experienced with my old car (Lada Samara 1300 in combination with Sava tires).

As for what you are considering to buy, don't you think both of those are a slight "overkill" for Logan?!

Last winter I almost got killed due to lack of winter tyres, guy with Lada Niva appeared in my lae, and braking (with ABS) on snow with Montana M801 is like like ice-skating, so I will NOT make any question about winter tyres. Alternative is Tigar Hitris for summer/rain and Tigar WinterA for snow, but I've heard that Conti and Goodyear are much better (and more expensive, but what the hell....). Anyway this topic is about your personal expirience with different types of tyres, so I can make my mind (and help others). Of course there are some tyre tests and issue of it's objectivity
I saw new LGNS with Michelin E3A tyres. I have E3B on my Kadett and saw no difference between Tigar TG621 and those new expensive ones

I think it also depends on how fast you drive / accelerate. I don't drive really fast (120-130 motorway, 80-100 out of motorway) and I'm careful with braking or accelerating (I mean, I try to drive as softly as possible, which is good for my car, for the environment...and my wallet ). I've driven Firestone, Continental Eco, Pirelli P3000 and Michelin Energy, all of them dry, wet and really wet ( but not on snow) and I'm pleased at most with Michelin. In Spain they are a bit more expensive than the others I mention but they last definitively longer and in much better condition for longer time. Continental tyres are a very good option as well but I think they make some more noise than Michelin. Pirelli have better grip (i.e: you can drive faster when taking curves ) but they don't really last long and after some 25.000 they lose many of their advantages. Firestone is a brand I think I won't buy again even if they are really OK (they are quite affordable, but they are very noisy, and the grip and km's of use are just average)

But as I say, that's just my experience, other may (and will) differ

I use Hitris now, and WinterA in winter. This is second year that I use Hitris 185/65/15 and also WinterA 195/65/15.
Hitris is almost same as Pilot Primacy, I mean it have same asymmetric tread pattern.
I didn't find any problems with both tires until now.

The devil is in the details, although they may look the same, there is the reason why Michelin is in F1 business, and Tigar is not (although it is a part of the Michelin group), and that "devil" in this case is the mixture of the rubber.

As for the experience, so far I can only tell what I know with my previous car. I had Tigar 621, but when I switched to Sava (Effecta), almost every aspect of the drive improved. The comfort was better, thanks to softer side walls, the traction and grip were also improved noticeably, especially on the snow and heavy rain. The only problem I already described, you could feel the understeering and bending of the front tires if you pushed to the limit in very sharp turns. Also, they were a softer compound tires, so they were wearing out quicker then Tigar, but then again, I did not have to throw away Tigar tires because of they were worn out, but because they became "dry", and started leaking air through the cracks in the material!

As for Logan and Continental, so far I can only say that it feels even better then Sava, but as I said, I was not yet able to test it under slippery conditions.

How long did you have those tires? A decade?

you could feel the understeering and bending of the front tires if you pushed to the limit in very sharp turns

If you ever come to Germany let me know and I will stay out of your way
Stu

I had Sava tyres on my Kadett too, i think it was Effecta.....it was disaster in rain....
Tigar Hitris and Michelin Pilot Primacy really look very very similar but what is inside? once upon time, Trayal T100 and Michelin MXT looked very very similar but I had to throw Trayal tyres away after 6 month because they were leaking air all around, performed terribly and had some weird cracks all over etc etc.

How does Hitris perform on wet? Few month ago, I was driving far behind Kadett E, it was raining, and it started hard braking in front of the traffic lights. With those Montana M801 I almost crashed into it, suppose centimeters were separating us. No use of ABS and keeping long distance. That's why I'm interested in tyre performance in wet, I think it is more important then in dry.

As for winter tyres, I've made my mind- UG7 as soon as I come back from vacation, and find some second hand tyre seller who is willing to buy 2 of mine Montana's, I'll buy UG7.

@Boris
I owned that Lada Samara for 7 years, I bought it as used, it already had those Tigar tires mounted so I don't know how old they were, but I had them replaced BEFORE they got worn out on the contact surface. It was some 4 years after I bought the car, and at the time I bought it they appeared to be in very good shape, almost new.



Stu, what is your point???
What did I do to scare you so much?

When pushing things to the limit it is normal to expect all kind of weird things happening! In fact, by experiencing those things you actually know that you have pushed to the limit (and it is time to back off, if you have some common sense)!

@Keka
Did you know that Sava is part of the Goodyear group, as Tigar is under Michelin? Look carefully where Goodyear tires are made, they may come from the same factory as Sava (here in Serbia, most likely from Turkey… yes, Sava from Turkey, not Slovenia)! I saw it with my own eyes!

YOU FRIGHTENED ME
WITH YOUR OLD LEAKING TYRES THAT I WOULD NOT PUT ON A SCATEBOARD
BAD TYRES ARE ONLY ON CARS FROM BAD DRIVERS
STU

Please, Stu, do not be so pompous!

My tires were leaking only for a couple of days; I had them replaced as soon as I noticed, even though I was making less then 400 Euros per month at that time!!! Replacement cost me 1/4 of my salary at that time, but I paid it without a blink!!!

When you live in some fortunate part of the world and earn as much as you probably do, it is easy to call less fortunate people bad names! And do not forget that I still managed to buy the same car as you, so don’t call me cheap, nor bad driver only because I wasn’t able to follow your high standards!!!

And you do not have to be afraid of me, because I’m not suicidal, I think of my head even if I wouldn’t think of yours!

Oh, and I forgot to mention... Back then I also bought 2 brand new wheel rims, although they were not leaking!!

11 Jun 2007, 23:06:
@Keka
Man, you seem to have had too many of those "almost crashing" situations for my taste! Good or bad tires, under the law the guilty party is the one who hits from behind!

And poor Stu is afraid of me...

OK i AGREE MONEY IS A PROBLEM (OR WAS)
But you drove too long on those tyres .It is not just you that you can kill it could be children or anyone (would you drive with faulty brakes )or drive till they are gone ?
and a blowout at 80 t0 100kmh can be deadly if a truck is coming the other way (or a Schoolbus)
ok end of topic
Just look after your tyres and your life
Stu

Well, when you drive 50.000 km per year, everyone can get in one or two "alost crashed" situation luckily I haven't crashed for 8 years now

Or your point was that I'm a bad driver?

@Stu
Please read what I wrote before answering so I don't have to repeat myself!

Thanks for a general advice, but, as I said, I DO CARE about the car I trust my and my familiy's lives with, and I did what was necessary imediately after the problem became aparent, as I always do!

[attachmentid=57046]

Or better... The image is worth a thousand words, so... There is a picture, of a car 14,5 years old. I sold it (just before I bought Logan) in less then a week after I put an ad on it's windshield, and after more then 6 months I still receive calls from potential buyers who saw it on the internet ads! I still regret that I didn't put at least 30% bigger price (it went for 1500 Eur)!

End of topic from my side too!

12 Jun 2007, 16:14:


Good for you!! I wish you keep being lucky!
Me, I wouldn't push my luck that much, I think it's not healthy...

As for your driving skills, I wouldn't judge them, as in my life I try to follow the Biblical rule "Do not judge for you will be judged!"... But there are those whose job is to judge, and under their rules you would be guilty, that was my point! You figure it for yourself...

Oh, and let's note one more fact - there are driving skills, but then there are also driving habits!

Just kidding.......I'm aware that when you drive a lot in short period of time, things can happen......No matter who is guilty, cars are damaged.

But I've a question

Does this count in crashes?

some idiot kicked my logan in the bumper with big concreate truck!
you cannot believe, idiot moved so close, and drilled my front bumper, scrached a paint over front left wheel (krilo), and broke my left light bulb!!!!

ofcourse car was in a front of my house parked ....

Man, I'm so sorry for you and your car

I had similar situation-unknown person scratched on parking lot my LGN's front bumper, on very right end, but I had luck-plastic part was scratched only where it has no paint, so it is hardly visible now.

The worst part is that you have to change now whole headlight, and duoe to guarantee maybe you will have to change the wing too. Before reparation check with the dealer where is the best to have your car repaired in order not to loose guarantee.

Best wishes from the seaside

I just bought 2 Contis Premium contact 2.......what a difference in dry......car is nailed to the ground........Now I'm waiting for rain to see how it performs

what is the price? and are Tiger 621 cool or not?

2 pcs with balance cost 17.200 RSD and there is 5 year warranty.

TG 621 is another category.....you get as much as you pay

but how much costs montana`s in romania?

I have no idea but tyre dealers in Serbia don't want to sell Montana, they say it is worse then Trayal

If that is possible

i had continental premium contact2, and it performed well.. but theire performance was not spectaculous in dry condition.. in wet condition performed well (for a wet condition),
anyway.. i changed them with vredenstein ultrac sessanta.. it really makes a difference, on wet is just as continentals were, put on dry they really show it's face.. cornering is briliant.. and braking too, also on heavy accelerations i cannot spin out the tires (as much i did with continentals.. not like i would want to spin them out.. but less spinning means more acceration. also more braking power.. )

so i'm very happy of my new tyres, but.. they are wearing a lot quicker.. softer compound. (1 have with them 10000km.. and already weard about 5-10mm)

Those tyres are not same category and can't be compared.......CPC2 scored excellent results in various tests in Germany and other countries.

I've never had Ultrac, but I wonder what type of tyre is one that lost 10mm of profile after 10.000 km and is still on the car?

The ones for VERY HIGH speeds, obviously, with extreme grip... For POWER cars, not for Dacia Logans...

http://www.vredestein.com/Banden_Bandtypes...=1&BandtypeID=3

They are not even made in adequate sizes...

With current wear rate, those Ultrac bla bla will fit LGN perfectly in few months

Today I had to buy 2 pcs of Goodyear Ultragrip 7 plus tyres. Old Montanas on rear axle deformed on thread ply. On rear left appeared some small "hills". Very poor quality, although there is 6 mm profile, it deformed.
Anyway this is not brand new model of tyre, but improved UG7.
It costs in Novi Sad 5900 RSD (some 70 euro), so now I'm waiting for snow to test them for now they're at rear axle.

You will find that winter tyres work a lot better on the drive axel !!!
on the back they just get pulled along .So its the front that needs the traction
and best of all is 4 NEW WINTER TYRES
Stu

I know that it works better on drive axle but it's still summer right?
In late october, or when outside temperature drops below 10 C I'll put 'em on drive axle.
The best combination is 4 summer and 4 winter tyres, but I can't afford that, so I suppose that 2 summer tyres on rear axle and 2 winter tyres on drive axle in winter is better than 4 summer tyres

IF I win the Lotto I will buy you 4 winter and 4 summer (If)
Stu

And if I win the Lotto, I'll buy a BMW for myself, and to both of you I promise to buy 4 of both winter and summer tyres + 4 aluminum alloy wheels

I'll even let you both choose make and model of the tyres!

and a crate of beer !!!
Stu

If grandma had balls.......

We do not have German salaries here, but german tyres have German prices+taxes

For example, I'm MD and my salary is 400 euro.
UG7 in Germany costs at e-bay about 50-65 euro, in Serbia UG7 costs 75 euro etc etc

PS I already have alloy wheels, but I could use some for my old Kadett

A question for drivers from Serbia...

I am thinking about installing the Tigar Wintera tyres (4 pcs) for the upcoming winter period. Does anybody have experineces with these tyres? Are they OK for Logan or I should go for Sava Eskimo tyres? Though I believe that Wintera is a decent tyre for roads in former YU...

Any experiences with Fulda winter tyres?

How do they rate against, say, Continental or Goodyear... or Sava maybe?

<span class='edit'>19 Nov 2007, 22:14:</span>
In my city there are 2 types of Fulda winter tyres available, Kristall Montero and Kristall Supremo. Montero costs around 60 EUR, and the price for Supremo is exactly the same as for Goodyear Ultragrip 7+, that is around 75 EUR.

I looked up Fulda site, and there they state Supremo tyres as high performance, high speed (H and V speed index, 210 and 240 kmph respectively). Montero is rated as speed index T or max 190 kmph, which is more then enough for Logan.

<span class='edit'>19 Nov 2007, 23:32:</span>
And Goodyear declares its Ultragrip 7+ as speed index T, same as cheaper Fulda Montero.

I bought Fulda Kristall Montero and, in cold icy weather, they are great in comparison to Michelin Energy. I own Logan for just 2 months, and I got Michelin Energy with it. I often drive at night, and I noticed that sometimes I have a feeling that the car isn't stable in turns. So, after only 1000 km went for a change of tires. Wanted Sava Eskimo S3 or Goodyear, but the dealear had only Fuldas on stock (and I don't like to wait).

After changing 185/65R15 Michelin Energy with 185/65R15 Fulda Kristall Montero - big improvement. Only negative size is more noise - I know everybody says Logan is pretty loud because of no insulation and lousy tires, but I didn't hear Michelin tires, but Fulda's are loud.

BTW Fulda and Sava are in Goodyear group.

test reports Fulda KRISTALL MONTERO

Average of 49 completed tests &Oslash; Score 2.8

Grip in dry conditions Score 2.33
Braking in dry condtions Score 2.39
Grip in wet conditions Score 2.82
Braking in wet condition Score 2.86
Grip in snow Score 3.10
Comfort Score 3.12
Tyre noise (in car) Score 3.14
Tyre noise (external) Score 3.16
Tyre wear Score 2.84
Kilometers driven 19.145 km

Scoring:
1: In this characteristic the tyre is best
6: In this characteristic the tyre is not acceptable.


test reports Fulda KRISTALL SUPREMO

Average of 24 completed tests &Oslash; Score 2.3

Grip in dry conditions Score 2.00
Braking in dry condtions Score 2.00
Grip in wet conditions Score 2.62
Braking in wet condition Score 2.62
Grip in snow Score 2.67
Comfort Score 2.12
Tyre noise (in car) Score 2.00
Tyre noise (external) Score 2.08
Tyre wear Score 1.88
Kilometers driven 17.604 km


test reports Continental WinterContact TS 810

Average of 35 completed tests &Oslash; Score 2.0

Grip in dry conditions Score 1.71
Braking in dry condtions Score 1.83
Grip in wet conditions Score 1.94
Braking in wet condition Score 2.06
Grip in snow Score 2.31
Comfort Score 2.09
Tyre noise (in car) Score 1.83
Tyre noise (external) Score 2.09
Tyre wear Score 1.94
Kilometers driven 16.356 km


test reports Goodyear ULTRA GRIP 7


Average of 68 completed tests &Oslash; Score 1.6

Grip in dry conditions Score 1.68
Braking in dry condtions Score 1.71
Grip in wet conditions Score 1.54
Braking in wet condition Score 1.56
Grip in snow Score 1.28
Comfort Score 1.68
Tyre noise (in car) Score 2.07
Tyre noise (external) Score 2.15
Tyre wear Score 2.03
Kilometers driven 11.076 km

Those results were taken from www.tyretest.com It is clear that Goodyear UG7 is the best winter tyre according to driver opinion across Europe.

Goodyear UG7+ is the winner in most tests. On the test you found Fulda Montero gets lousy marks. But, ADAC test ( http://www.adac.de/Tests/Reifentests/Winte...cePageID=195660 ) gives pretty good marks for Montero and Sava Eskimo S3 although these 2 tires are much cheaper than those you regard as best. And they are better than some other pricier tires (Pirelli, Bridgestone). Also, in bigger tire test ( http://www.adac.de/Tests/Reifentests/Winte...cePageID=195661 ) Kristall Supremo got lousy marks.

So, if you wan't to buy cheap but good, Sava Eskimo S3 and Fulda Kristall Montero are pretty good.

Actually, after some running around the city, I found a shop with a fantastic deal for Michelin Alpin A3 (30% off the regular price), so it's decided ! I'll get them for a price somewhat higher then GoodYear UG7+, but the salesman told me that there is a lifetime warranty on Michelin tyres (for all other imported makes they give only 6 months of warranty)! The only problem was that they didn't have them in store in the dimensions for Logan, but they promised they will get them by tuesday.

BTW, during my shopping I did a little checking by my own hand. I pressed my thumb against a sidewall of every type of tyre, and Michelin had by far the strongest sidewall of all!

What this lifetime warranty includes? And what's the price? Can you please tell me what's about sidewall stiffness?

I suppose it is like any warranty, "materials and workmanship blablabla...", except that it covers entire usable lifetime of the tyre. Of course, I'm well aware that if you apply for it, you will have to prove that the defect is not caused by hitting some pothole, driving on flat, or some other abuse, that they will certainly deduct from the refund the percentage of wear, but at least you can apply at any time.

The price is around 80 EUR.

Sidewall stiffness should be an indication of the strength of the inner structures of the tyres (but not necessarily, I admit), since this is the thinest part of the tyre. It is contradictory to the smoothness of the ride, but is useful for the transfer of power from the engine to the surface (and the same goes for braking too), direction handling, and for the durability on bad (plus) frozen roads in the winter, which is more important than the smoothness during the winter season.

For example, most so called "run flat" tyres, achieve this feature by having sidewalls strong enough to be self-supporting.

And, soft plus under-inflated tyre was ultimately found responsible for tumbling the Logan in that notorious ADAC test!

Ne mogu da verujem da ima srba na ovom forumu. Bas mj je drago. Izvinite kako pisem al nisam pisao odavno i sam zaboravio...pisem romuski...ja sam samo pola srbin.

Dobro do¹ao brate Srbine, pa makar i samo do pola
Internet ne zna za granice!
Ali ba¹ zbog toga moramo svi ovde da pi¹emo samo na engleskom.

And a translation for others:

Welcome brother Serb, even only just half-brother
Internet knows no borders!
But it is because of that, that all of us have to write here in English only.

Sorry...my translation too:
"I can't belive that there are serbians on this forum. I'm realy glad. Excuse my writing but i haven`t wrote for a long time...i'm writing in romanian...I am half serbian "

So, a pair of Michelin Alpin A3 it is, on the front wheels, since yesterday!
Conversion rate for Euro went up, so it cost me even under 80 EUR each, with no extra charges for balancing and mounting!

Now I can only wait for some snow...

g100sic, i really dont care what others will tell you, who are actually trying to sell
you something (incl their ideas), but winter tyres only on the front are either useless
or even dangerous. there are a million reason for this.

talk to actual professionals in any country, drivers that drive in real winter (sweden/
finnland/canada), talk to rallye drivers - all will confirm this. this has been a discussion
amongst 'professionals' since the early 60's when spike tyres were introduced, and
later again forbidden.

i am TOTALLY aware this is also, and more so here in the balkans, a money issue.
and i am not insensitive to this, not at all. but four really cheap (35E/ea) winter
tyres of any sorts (korean, or good italian re-threaded) are MUCH better than two
top tyres in the front only. this plus sensible driving will get you through any winter,
two good winter tyres in front, two summer tyres in the rear will get you into the
next ditch (if you are lucky ...).

greetings - heinz -

PS: when did the xchange rate jump? had been solidly just below 80 (market) for the
past 6 months - must have happend just after i passed through a week ago.

PPS: where in SR will you be saturday/sunday 15/16dec?
want to have some kind of one-coffee cup-dacia-club-mini-meeting somewhere?

@heinz57g:

I appreciate very much your good intentions, but without digging deep into tech details my common sense tells me that 2 wrongs and 2 rights are better than 4 wrongs, especially if it is allowed by law! It is also very arguable if 4 low quality cheaper winter tyres (read: inherently longer stopping distance) are better then 2 good quality summer and 2 good quality winter tyres. And I don't want to spare words on rethreaded tyres, those are a big NO-NO in my book!!! Anyway, what people say is one thing, and what test results show is another. The best way to disperse such a mythical debate would be if you had any references to some tests that prove the point.

Anyway, I don't intend to use my Logan anywhere outside the city during the winter, and most certainly will not engage in some rally driving up and down the mountains ... So, these winter tyres will serve mostly to relax and preserve at least a pair of summer ones for the next season . And, as you made a good point, I will rely mostly on sensible driving !

Regarding the exchange rate, it started rising some 2 weeks ago, and hit a high of 86 a week ago, but is slowly going down again.

And as for my whereabouts on 15/16 dec., it is a matter for a private message .

g100sic, sorry you are wrong wrong wrong, and anybody who KNOWS will confirm this.

>> common sense tells me that 2 wrongs and 2 rights are better than 4 wrongs

wrong. very much so, specially since the 4 wrongs should be 4 mediums.

>> especially if it is allowed by law!

there are plenty of countries where suicide is allowed by law, even assisted suicide. be my guest.

>> also very arguable if 4 low quality cheaper winter tyres (read: inherently
>> longer stopping distance) are better then 2 good quality summer and 2
>> good quality winter tyres

what a nonsense! you are talking about stopping distance, whereas the wrong combination already
has your turned over on your back.

>> don't want to spare words on rethreaded tyres, those are a big NO-NO in my book!!!

YOUR book? why then in many test a good rethreaded many times beats a cheap new one? why are
rethreaded ones (M+S) so popular in countries where it really counts?

>> The best way to disperse such a mythical debate

yes, thats what it has been for years.

>> if you had any references to some tests that prove the point

yes i have, 40++ years and 3+million kms of my own driving, 15 as a ralley driver, 10 as a test
driver, 25 as a driving instructor for commercial drivers (dont add the years, they run parallel), and
100's of collegues who will tell you the same. tray talking to an (honest) tire specialist, or a manufacturer.
or the police. or an automobile club i a country where snow is an issue.

>> Anyway, I don't intend to use my Logan anywhere outside the city during the winter

worse: it might be icy, and off you go, even at slow speed, the rear of your car will overtake you.

>> most certainly will not engage in some rally driving

i know it makes no sense, and i have seen so many heated 'pub and beer' discussions on this, but any
rally driver will put the good tires in the rear, and the bad ones (YES, even on front wheel drive, and
even in winter), on the front.

PLEASE DONT ASK ME WHY: just try it on a wet or slipery surface on an enclosed place. you find out QUICKLY.

>> will serve mostly to relax

you think a few months in a hospital are relaxing? what does yr family think?

>> preserve at least a pair of summer ones for the next season

and then you mix again?

>> I will rely mostly on sensible driving !

sorry if i end this with what might seem a rude sentence: try thinking first.

greetings - heinz -