Outline · [ Standard ] · Linear+ Toyota acuzata de distrugerea dovezilor, In procese impotriva sa

Treaba e simpla. Un fost avocat al toyotei, a dat toyota in judecata pentru ca aceasta a distrus dovezi, ce ar fi putut dovedi vinovatia firmei in cazuri de accidente soldate cu morti si raniti, in urma rostogolirilor intamplate in aceste accidente, inclusiv date pe care le aveau din faza de design si de testare cum ca masinile construite de ei nu sunt foarte sigure din acest punct de vedere. Toyota looks to have a potential public-relations nightmare on its hands. According to CBS News, one of the company's former lawyers, Dimitrios P. Biller, has filed a federal racketeering suit against the Japanese automaker. Biller worked for Toyota from 2003 through 2007 defending the company against rollover lawsuits blaming injuries and deaths on the alleged instability and weak roof structures of the company's SUVs and pickups. Biller's suit alleges that Toyota has withheld electronic evidence like emails in over 300 rollover cases, and it states that evidence was destroyed by the company in spite of his efforts to secure the data. The suit also alleges that Toyota withheld design and test data for vehicle roofs, and it also states that some vehicles on the road today don't meet roof safety standards. The disgruntled lawyer claims that he was forced to resign in 2007 after lodging several complaints to his supervisors about the company's alleged legal misconduct. The lawsuit claims that conflicts resulting from Biller's complaints ultimately led to his mental breakdown, along with a $3.7 million severance payout from Toyota. Toyota is saying very little about Biller's charges, though the company told CBS News that Biller's charges are "inaccurate and misleading," and that the company "takes its legal obligations seriously and works to uphold the highest professional and ethical standards." The lawsuit was filed on July 24, but Toyota has worked to seal the complaint due to what the company calls privileged and confidential information. The legal skermish has, rather predictably, caught the eye of lawyers around the country. If the lawsuit gains traction and has a favorable outcome for Biller, dozens of Toyota legal victories could be called into question. Denver lawyer Stuart Ollanik of Gilbert, Ollanik and Komyatte has reportedly settled dozens of cases against Toyota and he told CBS News that he wondered if the cases "were resolved based on honest information or not." San Jose lawyer James McManis, who lost a case involving a plaintiff who became a quadriplegic after rolling over in a Toyota 4Runner, told CBS News that everything "was a big fight – and I mean everything," and he wonders if he ever got all the information he was entitled to receive. It's important to remember that none of the information in Biller's lawsuit has been proven, and rollover suits have been pretty common for many automakers. Whether Toyota is at fault or not, though, the suit can't be good publicity for a company that prides itself on its quality and safety record. The motion is set for September 14. Hat tip to Steve. http://www.autoblog.com/2009/08/31/report-...dest/2#comments

Treaba e simpla. Un fost avocat al toyotei, a dat toyota in judecata pentru ca aceasta a distrus dovezi, ce ar fi putut dovedi vinovatia firmei in cazuri de accidente soldate cu morti si raniti, in urma rostogolirilor intamplate in aceste accidente, inclusiv date pe care le aveau din faza de design si de testare cum ca masinile construite de ei nu sunt foarte sigure din acest punct de vedere.

Toyota looks to have a potential public-relations nightmare on its hands. According to CBS News, one of the company's former lawyers, Dimitrios P. Biller, has filed a federal racketeering suit against the Japanese automaker. Biller worked for Toyota from 2003 through 2007 defending the company against rollover lawsuits blaming injuries and deaths on the alleged instability and weak roof structures of the company's SUVs and pickups. Biller's suit alleges that Toyota has withheld electronic evidence like emails in over 300 rollover cases, and it states that evidence was destroyed by the company in spite of his efforts to secure the data. The suit also alleges that Toyota withheld design and test data for vehicle roofs, and it also states that some vehicles on the road today don't meet roof safety standards.

The disgruntled lawyer claims that he was forced to resign in 2007 after lodging several complaints to his supervisors about the company's alleged legal misconduct. The lawsuit claims that conflicts resulting from Biller's complaints ultimately led to his mental breakdown, along with a $3.7 million severance payout from Toyota.

Toyota is saying very little about Biller's charges, though the company told CBS News that Biller's charges are "inaccurate and misleading," and that the company "takes its legal obligations seriously and works to uphold the highest professional and ethical standards." The lawsuit was filed on July 24, but Toyota has worked to seal the complaint due to what the company calls privileged and confidential information.

The legal skermish has, rather predictably, caught the eye of lawyers around the country. If the lawsuit gains traction and has a favorable outcome for Biller, dozens of Toyota legal victories could be called into question. Denver lawyer Stuart Ollanik of Gilbert, Ollanik and Komyatte has reportedly settled dozens of cases against Toyota and he told CBS News that he wondered if the cases "were resolved based on honest information or not." San Jose lawyer James McManis, who lost a case involving a plaintiff who became a quadriplegic after rolling over in a Toyota 4Runner, told CBS News that everything "was a big fight – and I mean everything," and he wonders if he ever got all the information he was entitled to receive.

It's important to remember that none of the information in Biller's lawsuit has been proven, and rollover suits have been pretty common for many automakers. Whether Toyota is at fault or not, though, the suit can't be good publicity for a company that prides itself on its quality and safety record. The motion is set for September 14. Hat tip to Steve.

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/08/31/report-...dest/2#comments

The lawsuit claims that conflicts resulting from Biller's complaints ultimately led to his mental breakdown, along with a $3.7 million severance payout from Toyota.

I-AU DAT 3.7 milioane de dolari si nu-i convine?

Poate vrea omul 10 milioane?

si i-au dat nu pt ca se considera toyota cu constiinta impacata ci pentru a pune batista pe tambal..

Ei prefera sa ascunda adevarul- ca sa nu le fie afectate vanzarile.

Au sa-i dea omului mai multi bani pt a-i inchide gura. O chestie "clasica"=banul

normal, interesul lor e sa puna batista pe tambal, pentru ca toyota se mandrea pana acum cu cultura lor corporativa, cu grija lor pentru clienti si alte slogane din astea .. corporatiste (rasuflate)

se pare ca treaba se impute pentru toyota, un avocat vrea sa redeschida 15 procese de rasturnari , in lumina noilor ipoteze. Se pare ca toyota avea dovezi despre 300 de accidente toyota,pe care le-a distrus(cu scopuri murdare bineinteles, pentru a nu plati daune & shit)..

We knew this was coming. When one time Toyota lawyer Dimitrios Biller filed a federal racketeering suit alleging that the Japanese automaker withheld evidence in several rollover suits, it was pretty obvious that lawyers would want to reopen past suits in light of the claims. Biller's suit alleges that Toyota withheld electronic evidence (emails) in over 300 rollover cases, and it states that evidence was destroyed by the company in spite of his efforts to secure the data. The suit also alleges that Toyota withheld design and test data for vehicle roofs, and that some vehicles on the road today don't meet roof safety standards.

Texas attorney Todd Tracy appears to be the fist to jump in, as he is reportedly planning to refile 15 rollover, frontal-impact and rear-impact suits against Toyota. Tracy told Automotive News that many past suits will come into question again if Biller's allegations turn out to be true, and he plans to re-file his six-year-old lawsuits, adding that he couldn't imagine Biller making up very specific facts "without having some ammo backing him up." Tracy actually opposed Biller in several Toyota cases, too, so he knows something about the lawyer and his work with Toyota.

Toyota has released a brief release (after the jump) addressing the issue, and spokesman Mike Michels says the company is mainly concerned with what it calls a breach of attorney-client privilege. Toyota added in a court filing that Biller, "intends to use this action as an excuse and new avenue for gaining some perceived leverage against [Toyota]." Toyota also added in its filing that Biller has tried on several occasions to reveal the company's private information. Toyota is currently trying to seal the contents of Biller's suit, though the documents are still publi

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/09/10/report-...l-ac/2#comments

daca nu ma insel astea sunt toate stiri vechi? 2006? poate ma insel dar le-am mai vazut si pe alte forumuri acum cateva saptamani si cel care a initiat topicul a fost expediat rapid pe acest motiv.

nope. stirea e noua, insa se refera la fapte mai vechi ale toyota (adica faptul ca au sters dovezi care aratau ca stiau ca produsele facute de ei au grave probleme), care au iesit la iveala odata cu fostul avocat al toyotei care se ocupa de procesele alea. Care a salvat (pare-mi-se) dovezile alea, despre care toyota credea probabil ca sunt sterse

toyota trece in ultima vreme printr-un adevarat calvar, odata cu scandalurile starnite de faptul ca a ascuns dovezi (se pare in 2 cazuri distincte) despre accidente soldate cu morti si raniti, ce au avut la baza vicii de proiectare. Astfel ca o firma de avocatura a dat in judecata toyota pentru ca o considera vinovata de 2000 de incidente in care automobile lexus si toyota au inceput sa accelereze necontrolat (in unele cazuri fara posibilitate de oprire). Din aceste 2000 de incidente au rezultat 16 morti si 234 raniti.

Following a statement from the DOT and NHTSA asserting that the unintended acceleration issue potentially involving millions of Toyota vehicles is "not closed," McCuneWright, LLP, a law firm in Southern California, has filed a national class action lawsuit on behalf of all Toyota and Lexus owners that claim to have experienced this phenomenon. Representing the class will be Los Angeles County residents Seong Bae Choi (owner of a 2004 Camry) and Chris Chan Park (owner of a 2008 FJ Cruiser).

According to the suit, Toyota has known about reports of unintended acceleration for years and has received over 2,000 such complaints. Citing statistics from Safety Research & Strategies, Inc., the lawsuit alleges that there have been 16 fatalities and 243 injuries from Toyota and Lexus crashes attributed to runaway vehicles. Toyota attributes these accidents to improperly installed or incorrect floormats that prevent the accelerator pedal from returning to its idle position.

Wright, though, said in a statement, "[N]either driver error nor floormats can explain away many other frightening instances of runaway Toyotas. Until the company acknowledges the real problem and fixes it, we worry that other preventable injuries and deaths will occur." Hit the jump for the official press release from McCuneWright.

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/11/09/class-a...ation/#comments

Si uite asa giemul isi revine ...

(in unele cazuri fara posibilitate de oprire)

siiiigur.

pai sigur. din ce am inteles eu e in felul urmator. Sunt implicate toyotele care au comenzi fly by wire (adica controlate electronic daca nu ma insel). Se pare ca ceva era prost conceput/buguri astfel incat comenzile pentru frana nu mai functionau, ba dimpotriva masina in loc sa opreasca (desi era apasata frana) accelera. Am inteles ca nici din buton nu putea fi oprit motorul

Oricum uite aici: http://www.abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=8982147

explica mai bine ce s-a intamplat, vezi tipa aia cu priusul care se plangea ca apasa pe frana si masina accelera, oprindu-se doar dupa ce a ajuns in rau

Poate ironick ne da mai multe detalii dpdv tehnic

Oricum uite aici: http://www.abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=8982147
explica mai bine ce s-a intamplat, vezi tipa aia cu priusul care se plangea ca apasa pe frana si masina accelera, oprindu-se doar dupa ce a ajuns in rau

are un "default" care nu a fost descoperit inainte de a fi lansata masina, la firmele mai serioase, pentru o chestie d'asta, se opreste instantaneu productia... e inadmisibil sa pui in pericol siguranta clientilor tai

faza aia cu presu' e chiar la nesimtire... tot incearca sa convinga lumea ca nu e o problema electrica

This post has been edited by membru_DC: 10 Nov 2009, 06:46

Chestia asta cu "unsolicited acceleration" a mai fost - atunci (cam 20? de ani in urma) era vorba de marcile Audi si Jeep (despre asta din urma s-a batut toba mai discret). A rezultat ca onorabilii accidentati apasau alte pedale (pe romaneste: _credeau_ ca apasa frina, dar apasau pe acceleratie). Desigur, chestia asta n-a mai fost mediatizata cu acelasi tam-tam.

Desigur, daca automobilul e complet comandat electronic (inclusiv nu exista nici o conexiune mecanica intre pedala de frina si mecanismele propriu-zise), situatia se schimba. Dar eu unul tare nu cred asa ceva; daca e asa - iata un puternic argument contra "electronizarii" excesive.

Cine cunoaste Lexus?

Parerea mea. Dupa cum sunt expuse lucrurile, imi pute a perfect disaster. Tehnic este posibil, dar practic mai greu. Am trait un an cu o masina care accelereaza singura cand vrea ea, dar totusi nu cred dumele astea.

NU tin deloc u Toyota, nu vreau sa interpretati ce scriu ca vine de la posesor de japoneza, dar asta e gunoi menit sa readuca pe linia de plutire increderea americanului in the good old american shit cars. Asta nu inseamna ca Toyota e un ingeras, sigur au si ei belelele lor, dar nici chiar asa...

Din cate stiu eu, conform legilor este interzis sa faci frana care sa se bazeze pe electronica si nu pe mecanica sau hidraulica.

Care legi? De unde?

driverx: de pilda, o asemenea reglementare exista cu privire la mecanismele de directie. Daca exista si pentru frine, nu stiu - dar pot sa-mi imaginez.

Atita vreme insa cit nu avem informatii concrete, vorbim ca sa ne aflam in treaba.

Sa ne inchipuim in schimb ce spume erau la gura unora daca in stirea asta in loc de Toyota aparea rombul nost' al de toate zilele...

...
Atita vreme insa cit nu avem informatii concrete...

Pai fix asta vroiam si eu. Oricum, m-ar bucura mult daca ar exista asemenea reglementari.

asta ca nu poti opri motorul e chiar tare...

Parerea mea. Dupa cum sunt expuse lucrurile, imi pute a perfect disaster. Tehnic este posibil, dar practic mai greu. Am trait un an cu o masina care accelereaza singura cand vrea ea, dar totusi nu cred dumele astea.

NU tin deloc u Toyota, nu vreau sa interpretati ce scriu ca vine de la posesor de japoneza, dar asta e gunoi menit sa readuca pe linia de plutire increderea americanului in the good old american shit cars. Asta nu inseamna ca Toyota e un ingeras, sigur au si ei belelele lor, dar nici chiar asa...

nu stiu daca e ceva regizat, nu cred ca is atatia nebuni care sa faca accident (in care unii si-au pierdut viata sau au fost raniti), doar pt a demonstra ceva toyotei. Partea ingrijoratoare era la faptul ca masina accelera cand se apasa pe frana. Nu cred ca celor carora li s-a intamplat asta confundau frana cu acceleratia

aphophis

Eu nu afirm ca accidentele nu ar exista sau ca morti nu ar exista din cauza acelor accidente. Problema e alta. Accidentele apar cand exista o serie de greseli care impreuna colaboreaza la crearea accidentului. Ei bine, eu sunt tare curios daca acele greseli isi au preponderent sursa la Toyota sau de fapt acceste accidente au devenit scula de manevra pentru prostimea americana. Asta pun eu sub semnul intrebarii, nu accidentele in sine.

Mai existau curente acum vreo 20 ani ca ABS-ul e o prostie. Si NU in Romania se cam intampla asta. Dar s-a ajuns la concluzia ca oamenii de multe ori in cazuri limita de fapt nu apasa suficient pedala de frana. Dar lumea se baza ca ABS-ul ii scoate din rahat, nu stiu ce era in capul lor. Cand ai aceste premise, poti manipula deja tare usor prostimea care nu intelege unde e motorul, dapoi cum functioneaza toata masina.

This post has been edited by R19/16v: 10 Nov 2009, 20:34

nu cred ca toti dobitocii s-au adunat la toyota, aia care confunda frana cu acceleratia si viceversa. Cred ca ceva, ceva e real in chestia asta, si nu cred ca are de a face cu faptu ca soferii aia nu stiau unde e frana si unde e acceleratia. Am pus mai sus un link cu o tipa cu un prius care a avut accident din aceeasi cauza. Spunea foarte clar ca masina accelera desi tipa apasa frana.

aphophis - asa au sustinut (cum spuneam, cu multi ani in urma) si un cadrul scadalului jeep/audi. Si totusi ancheta NTSA (National Traffic Safety Administration, cred ca nu gresesc denumirea) a stabilit cauza comuna "pedal misapplication" - adica apasat pe alta pedala. E asadar posibil.
--------
Corectie - primesc via MP opinia ca agentia cu pricina se cheama NTSB (B = Board), asa ca o adaug aici. Oricum, nu numele agentiei e important, ci faptele. Cune-i interesat poate sa google de exemplu "audi unsolicited acceleration", o sa afle o istorie despre prostie, despre goana dupa senzational si despre manipulare in USA.

"Once the driver inputs a brake command to the system via a human-machine interface - HMI (e.g. the brake pedal), four independent brake commands are generated by the ECU based on high level brake functions such as anti-lock braking system (ABS) or vehicle stability control (VSC). These command signals are sent to the four electric calipers (e-calipers) via a communication network. As this network might not be able to properly communicate with the e-calipers due to network faults, HMI sensory data are also directly transmitted to each e-caliper via a separate data bus.

In each e-caliper a controller uses the brake command (received from ECU) as a reference input. The controller provides drive control commands for a power control module. This module controls three phase drive currents for the brake actuator which is a permanent magnet DC motor, energised by 42V sources. In addition to tracking its reference brake command, the caliper controller also controls the position and speed of the brake actuator. Thus, two sensors are vitally required to measure the position and speed of the actuator in each e-caliper. Because of the safety critical nature of the application, even missing a limited number of samples of these sensory data should be compensated for."

Mai existau curente acum vreo 20 ani ca ABS-ul e o prostie. Si NU in Romania se cam intampla asta

Stai linistit, de ceva timp a ajuns si in Romania.

Acum da. Dar in urma cu 20 ani Rrumanica nu prea auzise de ABS. Nici de Anti-Lock Braking nici de plasticul ABS

Am mai zis şi aici.

Faptul că acceleraţia are prioritate în faţa frânării şi neînsuşirea completă a manualului de utilizare duce la astfel de situaţii.

toyota_crash_236.jpg
A closer look at Toyota’s “sudden acceleration” problem.

In light of a recent tragedy in which an off-duty CHP officer and three members of his family were killed, many have raised questions about what the true cause may have been.

According to a recent article in the Los Angeles Times, there may be more to the story than first explained by Toyota. Toyota issued a statement pointing to the installation of an improper floor mat from another vehicle, as we previously reported, as the cause of the crash. Then just one month after the crash involving the Saylor family, Toyota issued the largest recall in company history, affecting 3.8 million vehicles dating back to 2004.

Yet some believe that the issue goes beyond the floor mats – and lands likely in what many believe to be a flawed design with the highly computerized engine control system which lacks a fail-safe mechanism for emergency situations. The need for a fail-safe mechanism is being currently considered as a possible solution by Toyota, putting them in a position of implicit agreement.

In addition to the attorneys of victims, survivors, press organizations, and Toyota considering alternatives, there have also been nine different federal inquiries and investigations since 2000. Of the nine cases involving federal probing, only two cases pointed to the floor mats as the definite cause. Of the remaining cases, five have dismissed Toyota of fault, one pointed to a loose part, and one case is still open.

At the current time the only way to shut the vehicle off in a similar emergency would be to follow the directions outlined within the owner’s manual, which reads, “If you have to make an emergency stop, press and hold the ‘power’ switch for more than three seconds.” A Toyota spokesperson points out that this will also disable power assisted steering and braking.

In a case such as Saylor’s where the owner is unfamiliar with the vehicle, relying on the driver’s in-depth knowledge of the owner’s manual is not practical, pointing to the need for a more obvious solution. Safety experts also pointed out the fact that modern brake-assist systems operate with a vacuum powered assistance – a vacuum that is reduced or eliminated under full throttle. The result is that considerable force on the brake pedal may result in minimal stopping power.

To demonstrate the problem of relying on power-assisted brakes in the case of sudden and uncontrollable acceleration, the attorney for Guadalupe Gomez explained the details of his client’s case, “He [Gomez] was held hostage for 20 miles on a Bay Area freeway by a 2007 Camry traveling more than 100 mph. Gomez was unable to turn off the engine or shift into neutral and then burned out his brakes before slamming into another car and killing that driver.”

According to The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration there is still an open investigation into sudden acceleration events involving Toyota vehicles.

This post has been edited by Squirrel: 11 Nov 2009, 13:09