Outline · [ Standard ] · Linear+ My new Dacia Logan, What I've found and driving experience

You said it yourself, you are a perfectly good candidate for a diesel engine! You'll save that extra money back really soon! Me, I have to admit I haven't crossed 25000 km in total with my previous car for 7 years! I hope to improve that statistic with Logan, but I doubt it would still be enough to justify the investment in diesel.

You said it yourself, you are a perfectly good candidate for a diesel engine! You'll save that extra money back really soon!

Me, I have to admit I haven't crossed 25000 km in total with my previous car for 7 years! I hope to improve that statistic with Logan, but I doubt it would still be enough to justify the investment in diesel.

Well..I was saving for a new Logan 1.4 Laureate...but it looks like I'll have to save some 1800 Eur more for the 1.5 dci. 

I'm afraid 7,3 for an ordinary 120 km/h cruise on the motorway is a bit too much for me ( I drive some 25000 km /year )

In a 1400 at 120 KMH you will use at the most 6 ltrs
I own a 1400 and have never been in the position to say I wished I had more power !! and I Live in Germany
I am off to work now and will reset my OBC for two KM
will let you know tonight the result
stu

There's nothing wrong with a fuel consumption of around 10 liters per 100 km if you drive just about 2-3 km. The engine doesn't even has time to warm up. I drive 2.5 km to work every day with 2 traffic lights stops. I could just walk but unfortunately when I finish work in the afternoon I go to another job which is 5 km further than my first workplace so I have to use the car. When I come home in the evening the engine barely warms up by the time I get home so an average consumption of 9.5-10 l/100 km per day (driving just to and from work) is normal. Let's not talk about fuel consumption in traffic jams where I have seen the numbers skyrocket. Does 14 l/100 km seem much when you get to go 100 m in half hour?

like i said 2.5 km this morning with a hill in the middle driving normal I had a average of 6,3 ltrs
Could your fuel be crap ???
as for traffic lights you wont get any readings from staying still it just does not show
And I would realy think about a good old Song from Queen
with a 2000mtr drive it is not worth it and not Enviroment Friendly
Stu
sea0186l.jpg

The only way to make a true and accurate estimate of the fuel consumption is this:

1. when you have only 2 lines left on the fuel indicator (so aprx 10 liters), you should fuel your car with... let's say 30 liters. (that would mean you have aprx 40 liters in the tank). You also look at the mileage. (for eg. 7300 km). Make sure you remember it.

2. when you are down to 2 lines again it's obvious that ~30 liters where used. You look at the mileage (let's say it's 7700 km now).

So, 7700 - 7300 = 400 km. You traveled 400 km with 30 liters

...Which means that the fuel consumption per 100 km is:

30 x 100 / 400 = 7.5 liters.


Never trust the OBC with stuff like average fuel consumption because it's not that accurate. What could be more accurate than the money you ACTUALLY spend?

Note: always make this estimate with as many liters as possible (30, 40 l) it's more precise this way.

@g100sic: It wasn't my intention to "teach" you how to drive. It's just that there are many people who don't really know helpful technical details of newer cars (especially if you used to drive an old one).

@taco: If you drive 25000 km/year, the only option for you, my friend, is DCi

This post has been edited by bloodem: 23 Apr 2007, 19:36

like i said 2.5 km this morning with a hill in the middle driving normal I had a average of 6,3 ltrs
Could your fuel be crap ???
as for traffic lights you wont get any readings from staying still it just does not show
...

Stu, I can't believe what you are saying!!!!!
From what you say, it seems that you were looking at the immediate consumption on the OBC, not the average. On my model, the average consumption shows all the time except for the first 400 meters after the reset, while it calibrates itself. And if you let the engine running while standing still, the average raises with time!

And my numbers are consistent with those from "Illusion", who seems to have very similar driving pattern to mine.

As for the crappy fuel, I can't rule that out, although I buy fuel only at the foreign company's gas stations, mostly at Eko Hellenic and OMV.

g100sic
this is your choice if you dont believe what i say BUT
i have been driving for over thirty years and have more than likely driven more kms in reverse than you have forwards
I know how the OBC works and like i say after 2.5 km its 6,3 ltrs average and not im cons
END BASTA
not interested in getting into arguements with kids
Bye bye and out of here
STU

Never trust the OBC with stuff like average fuel consumption because it's not that accurate. What could be more accurate than the money you ACTUALLY spend? 

100 % right !

@taco: If you drive 25000 km/year, the only option for you, my friend, is DCi

Yes, I know diesel it's the only option that makes sense, just I had the hope that consumption would be a bit lower than that in the 1.4 ( I drive no faster than 120 km/h, I change gear at 2000-2500 rpm...). I've driven the 1.5 dci in Renault Clio (with 65 hp ) and I have to say it's a superb engine ( no wonder, it's made in Spain ) but I love the feeling of gasoline, it has something that diesel engines just don't have, no matter how powerful they might be. And let us not forget that you have to change oil every 30.000 km in the 1.4 whereas it's 20.000 in the dci ( at least in Spain) what is of "help" too. And 1.800 € extra is a lot of money !

@g100sic, stu: Please keep cool and make peaces...I like you both and I'd regret not reading again from any of you

...
Never trust the OBC with stuff like average fuel consumption because it's not that accurate. What could be more accurate than the money you ACTUALLY spend? 
...

Now, Bloodem raised here a very interesting question ! What should we trust, the OBC or gas-stations meters?! While I'm keen to believe that the measurement by the car's own computer is more precise than gas pump meter's in pure physics sense (I suspect that gas pump meters exploit the allowable tolerance to their own advantage), at the end of the day it is what you pay that matters.

I'll try to be objective regarding this issue ! I'll keep track of where I buy my fuel, and then try to get some meaningful conclusion from the statistics, and I promise I'll report here if I found something interesting!

As for the proposed methodology of calculating consumption, I think I can suggest a better one!

Instead of waiting to empty your tank to approximately 2 lines (how much are 2 lines in liters, who knows?!?), than filling with "exactly" 30 or 40 liters, than waiting again until it drops to 2 lines, you should:
1. Fill your tank up full!
2. Reset your OBC;
3. Drive, drive, drive, until the tank is nearly empty;
4. Fill your tank up full again, note the amount of fuel filled;
5. Note the distance traveled from the OBC;
6. Divide those two (do not forget to correct the result by factor 100 )!
The OBC also has the indication of the fuel used, so it is convenient to compare the numbers.

@Stu:
Sorry mate, it was not my intention to start a flame, or to call you liar, I was just amazed by your result, plain and simple! No hard feelings! And I'm not a kid (but thanks for a compliment anyway ), I'm 46 years old, and with not much less driving experience than you. In years at least, if not in kilometers. It's true I haven't crossed a long way in my own cars, but I have also been driving company cars quite a lot, but I don't have the need to keep track of that distance.

If you agree, we should not make Taco worry We’ll behave, or at least I promise to behave if you don’t want to…

This post has been edited by g100sic: 23 Apr 2007, 23:07

Now, Bloodem raised here a very interesting question ! What should we trust, the OBC or gas-stations meters?! While I'm keen to believe that the measurement by the car's own computer is more precise than gas pump meter's in pure physics sense (I suspect that gas pump meters exploit the allowable tolerance to their own advantage), at the end of the day it is what you pay that matters.

I'll try to be objective regarding this issue ! I'll keep track of where I buy my fuel, and then try to get some meaningful conclusion from the statistics, and I promise I'll report here if I found something interesting!

As for the proposed methodology of calculating consumption, I think I can suggest a better one!

Instead of waiting to empty your tank to approximately 2 lines (how much are 2 lines in liters, who knows?!?), than filling with "exactly" 30 or 40 liters, than waiting again until it drops to 2 lines, you should:
1. Fill your tank up full!
2. Reset your OBC;
3. Drive, drive, drive, until the tank is nearly empty;
4. Fill your tank up full again, note the amount of fuel filled;
5. Note the distance traveled from the OBC;
6. Divide those two (do not forget to correct the result by factor 100 )!
The OBC also has the indication of the fuel used, so it is convenient to compare the numbers.

AT LAST SENSE
Fill it up empty it count the ltrs and Bobs yer Uncle
Stu
Stu

Yes, I know diesel it's the only option that makes sense, just I had the hope that consumption would be a bit lower than that in the 1.4 ( I drive no faster than 120 km/h, I change gear at 2000-2500 rpm...).  I've driven the 1.5 dci in Renault Clio (with 65 hp ) and I have to say it's a superb engine ( no wonder, it's made in Spain    ) but I love the feeling of gasoline, it has something that diesel engines just don't have, no matter how powerful they might be.  And let us not forget that you have to change oil every 30.000 km in the 1.4 whereas it's 20.000 in the dci ( at least in Spain) what is of "help" too.  And 1.800 € extra is a lot of money  !

@g100sic, stu:  Please keep cool    and make peaces...I like you both and I'd regret not reading again from any of you  

What do you mean by that Taco ???
We are having a Barny here and you dont have to agree do you ???
The world would be a boring place if we all conformed and agreed
Dont you agree ??
Stu

This post has been edited by martin245: 23 Apr 2007, 23:23

@Stu: nobody is trying to start a flame. But it seems to me that some people do not know that the average consumption the OBC is giving it's calculated taking into account the idle time. So when you stop in traffic and the engine is at idle and burning fuel (take into account that the engine is not warmed up so it revs faster thus burning _more_ fuel than when it's warmed up). Thus to travel say 2.5 km with a "cold" engine and frequent stops you _have_ to burn more fuel than to travel the same distance with a "warm" engine (and about the same amount of idle time). Also take into account that when you reset the OBC the accuracy of the avg fuel consumption is "going south" and takes some time and mileage to stabilize.
Cheers!

Now, Bloodem raised here a very interesting question ! What should we trust, the OBC or gas-stations meters?! While I'm keen to believe that the measurement by the car's own computer is more precise than gas pump meter's in pure physics sense (I suspect that gas pump meters exploit the allowable tolerance to their own advantage), at the end of the day it is what you pay that matters.

i don't know about you, but the numbers I get would make one think that gas pump meters exploit that tolerance to their disadvantage)

Seriously though, there was nothing that would make me think otherwise... With a 3 - 4 l/100 km on highway drive and a 5 liter/100 km in town... (even less than the fuel consumption given by Dacia), I really can't complain about anything, especially not the gas pumps

@taco: dude!!! are you serious?? 30000 km for mpi and 20000 km for DCi? That's insane.... I really do believe 10000 for DCi and 15 000 for MPi like we have here in Romania is perfect for the engine.... 30000 without oil change is just too much!

@taco: dude!!! are you serious?? 30000 km for mpi and 20000 km for DCi? That's insane.... I really do believe 10000 for DCi and 15 000 for MPi like we have here in Romania is perfect for the engine.... 30000 without oil change is just too much! 

I would say that is a little to much kilometers before the oil change on the first impresion but think a little at the much better condition of driving in this Spain or Germany or other countries.I would look to Renault clio the same engine and if the distance between 2 oil changes is the same I would respect the 30.000km for the oil change for the MPI engine and 20.000km for the DCI

This post has been edited by Tibi_: 24 Apr 2007, 12:28

Tibi, 30 000 km is too much even if you're driving on golden highways
It's not about the road, it's about the friction within the engine... oil is very important... if the oil is old and compromised, the engine's life will be shortened.

This post has been edited by bloodem: 24 Apr 2007, 17:27

Driving and consumption are linked
One in two car journeys is less than 3 kilometres! One in five less than one kilometre, and one in eight less than 500 metres... These short journeys with a cold engine and at low speed consume proportionally much more energy than a long journey.



Cold engine, warm engine

An engine and catalytic converter work "from warm" after doing 10 to 12 km in flowing traffic or 3 to 4 km in congested traffic. The energy used and the pollutants emitted vary sharply depending on the temperature of the engine and catalytic converter, more pollutants are emitted and more energy consumed "from cold": + 80 % for the 1st kilometre, + 50 % for the 2nd... More than half of car journeys are therefore those which consume and pollute the most! Furthermore, the car’s mechanics suffer from cold: engine wear is higher when the lubricants have not reached the correct temperature, the catalytic converter does not work very well. The recent European regulations on vehicle engines should provide solutions leading to a significant reduction in pollution "from cold".

Driving fast consumes the most

With a warm engine, between 0 and 80 km/hour, the faster a car goes the less it consumes; beyond 80 km/hour, consumption rises with the speed.
In town, because of traffic jams and frequent stopping and starting, a car consumes 20 to 40 % more. In addition, 60 % of the energy is used by the engine just for accelerating and decelerating.

Flexible driving uses less

Consumption also depends on driving: on the same journey, it can vary by 40% depending on the driver. Here is some practical advice: when stationary, there is no point in heating the engine even for diesel vehicles. At the start of the journey, it is preferable to travel at a moderate speed.
During the journey, avoid repeated stopping and starting; braking uses a great deal of energy, almost as much for decelerating as for accelerating: you must therefore anticipate and use the engine brake. As soon as possible, change gear. Finally, obey the speed limits: that will enable you to reduce your consumption by around 3.5 %.

@Stu:
There you have it!!!

Just what I was telling from my own experience, 80% more for the first kilometer, +50% for the second, or 65% combined for 2 km, and you get what I said in one of my previous posts - nearly 2 times the normal consumption with warm engine! If the declared (by the factory) average for mixed (not purely city!) drive is 6.8, 65% more gives you 11.2 l/100km! Not to mention that the factory declared average for city drive is 9.2 l/100km for 1.4 l engine!

Where did you get this article?

And after this, how can I not take your "6,3 ltrs" with disbelief?! Something just does not add up there, but I can't tell what because I don't know what is different.

This article also explains Logan's behavior at higher speeds. When compared to the competition in the same size class, it is rather light, but on the other hand has rather large cross section. Therefore, it is normal to expect lower consumption than competition at speeds under 80 km/h, but since it lacks mass to store inertial energy, when the aero-dynamical drag becomes a key factor at speeds over 80 km/h, and especially over 120 km/h, you can expect higher consumption than competition, and eventually lower maximum speed, as high air resistance overpowers the engine sooner.

i don't know about you, but the numbers I get would make one think that gas pump meters exploit that tolerance to their disadvantage)

You are a one lucky guy, do not change your gas station!

My conclusion is drawn from the belief that Dacia (or Renault) does not have any interest in showing you smaller consumption then real, while gas stations do have an interest to show you more liters then real!

Never mind, feeling happy is the most important thing!

There is one more interesting conclusion from the Stu's article.

Flexible driving is overrated!!

As it sais in the article, you can save only 3.5% by improving your driving style.

http://www.mobilityweek-europe.org/spip.php?article87
stu

This one's an interesting topic

First of all I'm happy everyone can express himself free, even if we don't have the same opinions sometimes.

Regarding oil and service intervals, I know that 20 or 30.000 km seem a lot but it's nothing so unusual in Spain. A few examples: Renault Clio II dci (65, 80 and 100 hp ) Euro 3 and Megane I dci were due every 30.000 km ( stated by Renault itself in the booklet you get with the car- can't remember its name), now they are Euro 4 they have lowered it to 20.000 km, Fiat Punto 1.2 every 20.000, Ford Fiesta 1.3 every 20.000 km too. I know all those figures from first hand, I promise.

Really, 20.000 km is the standard mileage nowadays, for both diesel and gasoline ( with Korean brands Hyundai and Chevrolet-Daewoo at around 15.000-20.000). I can't tell why, I think it depends on fuel standards and driving conditions in different countries, or on the commercial policy of each brand, I don't know.

I sometimes take a look at the oil cans in the supermarket too, and there are some Elf or Mobil XXX oil which claim you can wait up to 30.000.

For Dacia it's what I said: 30.000 km gasoline and 20.000 diesel

I believe you, but like I said, it's just too much even for a BMW... 30 000 km is pushing it !

Those cars are made to last about 10 years in my opinion and when I say this I'm not thinking only at Dacia or Renault but to almost all the car company's.And a gasoline Logan(at least 90% of them) are making less than 30.000km/year => the engine will have less than 300.000km when the car will go to scrap.And this engine will go for that distance in allmost 100% of the cases even with the change of oil at 30.000km.The way people think is changing any article you buy was made to last a shorter period of time.
The real problem with the engine comes not for us the ordinary buyers but for those who own a Logan or another car used as TAXI or other commercial purpose, car's who make over 60.000km/year just in those cases I think would be a good idea to change oil more often than the producer says for Spain or other countries(30.000MPI /20.000kmDCI).

For Serbian market the manual states that the service interval for petrol engine is 15000 km or 1 year, whatever comes first, but, if most of the driving is at short distances (cold engine), then the recomended service interval is 7500 km (or 1 year).

Hi all,

Bought my car from CityRenault, Tallinn.
Their first service is after 5000 km (because of the model being so "young"), then after every 20 000 km. The first service was 1800 Estonian kroons, or €115; others are 2515 kroons, or €161.

They say these are Renault's recommendations.

So Renault puts Estonian roads somewhere in between those of Romania and Western Europe, which might be fair enough.

To our Romanian and Bulgarian friends: a perspective. While in EU, Estonia have had 11% annual economic growth, and wages have risen 25% in just three European years. At the same time, unemployment had fallen from 10% to 2 to 3%, so that only Denmark and Sweden are ahead of us.

This post has been edited by Uri: 27 Apr 2007, 08:37

Do you remember sometime ago I said that when I bought my Dacia Logan Lauriett here in Germany (April 2006) they told me it was Euro 4 !! It turned out to be a Euro 3 .I told the salesman (who actualy had no idea of selling cars )
Thatr this is the the wrong Motor type ! he said we will look into it.Ok I thought
I will recieve a bit of money back
I waited over half a year and got in touch again ,Ok i will be in touch said the salesman again --------------------------------------------
Then came Christmas and the new year !!
So I got my wife to put a bit of Dynamite up there rears in the way of an Email to the BOSS
POW !!!!
I recieved an email saying I must go and see the boss .So off I went (with the wife) and we had a talk and said how bad the service was
WE GET OUR BRAND NEW BRIGHT RED DACIA in 2 months time
We had to pay 1000 euro for our 15000 km thats OK
Tyres and exhaust and things would need replacing in around 2 years anyway and it also had a dent on the door
------------------------------------------------------------------
So when I get it I will post a photo
Happy Stu

Oh yes the salesman is no longer with this firm

PS Why dont so many forum members fill in there Profiles Birthday etc

This post has been edited by martin245: 28 Apr 2007, 09:53

Excellent news Stu

Uri, is Estonian similar to Finnish and can you understand Finns when they are speaking?

I was in Helsinki last week, and I've found out that Estonia declared as a Scandinavian nation, related to Finland.

This post has been edited by jaksa: 28 Apr 2007, 10:14

Hi all,

Bought my car from CityRenault, Tallinn.
Their first service is after 5000 km (because of the model being so "young"), then after every 20 000 km. The first service was 1800 Estonian kroons, or €115; others are 2515 kroons, or €161. 

They say these are Renault's recommendations.

So Renault puts Estonian roads somewhere in between those of Romania and Western Europe, which might be fair enough.

To our Romanian and Bulgarian friends: a perspective. While in EU, Estonia have had 11% annual economic growth, and wages have risen 25% in just three European years. At the same time, unemployment had fallen from 10% to 2 to 3%, so that only Denmark and Sweden are ahead of us.

Yes but I bet your prices have risen as well
like food and drink or going for a meal !
Here in Germany since the end of the DM the prices have as good as doubled
and still over 3 millioin out of work
Stu
go here for more
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3411009.stm

@Stu

Now, that BOSS character is a one hell of a good salesman!!
You were hoping for some money return, but instead he succeeded in taking you a 1000 Euros more, and selling you a new car in only a year's time, while making you feel happy!!
That's probably why he is The BOSS, and the other guy is looking for a new carrier...

But let's get serious here...
Who is actually that BOSS, whom should we send an email in the unlikely event that we decided we were not given what we paid for? (I'll have to watch my wallet closely if I decided to go see him, though...)

This post has been edited by g100sic: 28 Apr 2007, 17:08